Big guys, traits, rerolls, and the like

[shaniepoo]

I like the idea that big guys cant use team re-rolls, if they could they would run riot! WA and Bone Head make you think more about taktiks and rely less on the brawn of these guys. I have started putting my Minator behind my linemen so that he doesnt get pulled into blocking twice and ending up surounded by the other team.
The rules are fine as they are IMO.

[Krinosy]

I think that the question as to whether or not Big Guys can use re-rolls is linked to whether you think that they are an integral part of their team, or an added extra. Personally I think the latter, hence I support Big Guys not getting re-rolls. Fact of the matter is that not all teams can get Big Guys, so that to me makes them 'optional'. If you feel that not having re-rolls is too much of a crippler for a Big Guy, then the easiest option is to go without, because if you think the trait is so bad then it shouldn't be a problem if you meet a team with a Big Guy with a bad trait and no re-rolls, right?

Having said this however, I think the suggested removal of the 'Must Block' clause of WA would make it relatively closer to the other negative skills.

Following on from the whole no-RRs/added extra thing, I think that this is a good method to re-introduce Allied players to the game, rather than those somewhat dubious 'pact' teams. No RRs, a suitable 'racial' characteristic that punishes coaches that try to draw on allies too much. Something like a D6 roll to allow them to play each drive, with the required roll depending on the cost of the ally (more expensive ally = higher required roll = less likely to play).

[SgtCaples]

A rat ogre for 130K: 6-5-3-8
Good: mighty blow, prehensile tail
Bad: Frenzy, Wild Animal

An Ogre at 120K: 5-5-2-9 (so basically 1 less move and 1 more armor with 1 less in AG which these guys don't use much anyway)
Good: mighty blow, thick skull
Bad: Bone Head

So, a RO Must block, must follow up, must throw a second block,and must go first.

An Ogre, has a 1 in 6 chance of not acting at all, which doesn't cause a turn over, and which he can do any time in his turn. AND he has a 50% chance of staying in play if KO'd

With stats being almost perfectly comperable between the two, and the ogre costing 10k less, how are these comparisons fair? So how can it be that everyone is so afraid of the RO "running rampant"? I don't see ogres "running rampant".

[Bob-the-Fish]

I think that ROs and Kroxigors should be in their respective team lists and probubly put trolls on Goblin teams as well. It seems pointless to keep them seperate since only those teams can even use them. Other teams can take trolls, but they can also take ogres for a few K more, so not many do. The rest of the Big Guys are fine as "allies"
I've played with both the WA players (skaven w/ RO and CDs with Mino) and from experience I'd have to say that it's to much of a negative trait for the whole team not just the Big Guy. The easiest way I think would fix this would be to just let them use TRRs. That way at least you can have some control over your turn ending before its even begun. Its still has effects the player because you have to burn your TRR for that turn so next time you fail thats it. It takes quite a while for a Mino and a RO to get the 16 points required for block and pro and it seems contrary to the freedom of skill development to force a player to take skills for him to be affective. It wouldn't make other Big Guy's negative traits to much better either, it would just give them the same options as the rest of the team.

[Krinosy]

I vote for on separate allies lists mainly because I don't think they belong on the team lists naturally - they are an imported commodity. Additionally, although Rat Ogres and Kroxigors don't appear on race rosters other than their respective owning races, its more consistent to list them all in a separate section.

Besides, I wouldn't mind seeing non-Big Guy allies back in the game in a certain modified form.

As for WA, I really like Neo's Gone Wild roll as a 'fix' for it.

[Thadrin]

The extra AG a Rat Ogre gets is a HUGE difference. As a Dwarf player I know very well the difference between AG3 and AG2. Frenzy ona ST5 critter is VERY nasty. Prehensile Tail is pretty darned useful too. an extra square of movement is never a bad thing. With the current WA Rat Ogres are overpoweered. I thought we'd gone through this question about a million times.

Look at the reroll thing like this: the BGs may be at the training sessions, but trying to persuade a slathering beast like a minotaur or a Rat Ogre that maybe worrying about that ball thing would be a good idea, or trying to teach an ogre the fundamentals of the running game is probably a wasted effort.

I think WA needs a good going over. I'm very much behind the "roll before he takes his turn, on a 1 he goes berserk and is moved like a Goblin Fanatic, blocking whatever he finds in his path." idea. But that is a discussion that has been had elsewhere.

As it stands I thik Big Guys are just the way they should be. Twice in the season I just finished i saw Minotaurs cost their owners TDs. Thre HAS to be a price.

[Toby]

Its funny how stuff i got flamed about in summer starts to get popular