Lizardmen are unstoppable!!!

[KnuckleGutKiller]

Hey, I am playing in league with 4 players I am Dwarfs with 2 Blitzers 1 Runner 2 Slayers the rest are Linemen. We also have one team that are Undead another team that are humans and the team NO ONE can beat the Lizardmen. I dont know how to beat these guys and I need help fast! In fact we have played 2 games each now and no one can beat the Lizardmen this guy is un defeated ever since he has played Lizardmen in 3 Leagues!! The Saurus is Like a Dwarf Linemen on streroids with a ST of 4 every time you attack the basted its 2 dice and he chooses! He also is faster than a dwarf. unless I go two on one and waste a player. He has half Skinks half Saurus he keeps the skinks so far back you cant touch them with Dwarfs! They move 8 push twice for a total movement of ten! he punches a hole in your weakest spot usally the sides!
In my first game with my Dwarfs versus his Lizards it was my intenttion of Killing every Damm skink and not even pick up the ball! (kill his running game) what happen was he rolled 2 tens in the first half and KILLED! two of my lineman and a nigle injury on a 3rd Lineman. I was blown away! I even had a apothecary! (I didn't after the first half) due two my dwarfs with a ST 3 and the Lizard at 4 he gets two dice and when I try to put him down he gets two dice then chooses! These guys are un stoppable and our league needs help. If ANYONE can send me some game plans or advice or a post I would appriciate it. As of today the Lizardmen have won against all of our League teams. We believe this team is the best team in blood bowl and cant be beat(should have never made Lizardmen in bloodbowl )
We are considering letting each of the teams play a second team to make our league bigger and try some other teams to kill this guy. Any ideas what I should play or do?!?!

[Grumbledook]

Heh lizard men can be beat.

They are fast and strong, so you need to slow them down and grind them in, normal dwarf tactics really ;]

If there is a sauras out of position and you can get a player on him, then do so. I've held them up with choas dwards, you have block which helps and will make him waste rerolls. You will prolly go down a lot but av9 is hard to beat (except with lucky dice). If you can keep his sauas occupied you have a str advantages vs the skinks. Your best off using longbeards as then their tackle negates their dodge, which is pain to them. When you get a numerical advatnage you can double up on the saruas leaving them with one die blocks.

As dwarfs are slow they can run rings around you, so don't leave big open spaces for them to run for they will only exploit it. Keep a man on the sauras so he can't smash a hole through and spread the long beards about to make a net of tacklezones with the tackle skill. Skinks aren't good at making a hole and they will find dodging through tackle skill very hard. They don't stand up to attrition very well and they like to score fast. you might be best lettting them. Then you can gang up on other players and using the rest of the half to equalise. Like i said tie up the saruas and the skinks aren't going to cause you many problems if you hold the ball.

The other coaches will have to play to their strengths to beat them. Look in the tactics section rather than in general chat here as well ;]

[Ghost of Pariah]

I would think that dwarfs should be set up perfectly for crunching lizardmen.
Longbeards on skinks, troll slayers and blitzers on saurus and kroxigor.

On defense I would keep some long beards off the line and have them about 8 squares back to deal with end zone bound skinks. Remember that tackle will take away their dodge skill. Do overlap tacklezones, spread them out and make the skinks dodge as many times as you can. More rolls mean more chance of failing that 3+. I'd keep the runner back to goal tend as well since his MA 6 will allow him to be a sort of 'free safety'.

On the line I would place the troll slayers toward (or in) the wide zones for 2 reasons. 1. This helps them push players out of bounds with frenzy and 2. Keeps their AV 8 away from the Krox. (who is probably going to more centralized) The knee jerk reaction is to always put the slayers up against the krox but on defense the krox attacks first, so no dauntless and mighty blow vs. AV 8. Not good. The blitzers and a longbeard or two are better suited to defend his onslaught.

If I were running them I'd choos to kick first. You are capable of absorbong the damage they deal and this will help you know what pace to set in the second half.

On offense I would load the heavy with most of your players. Keep the runner and a blocker or two back with the ball. Everyone else should push forward and deal shell out as many blocks as they can. Run your offense the same as a kick return in the NFL. Form a wedge or cage that creates a hole for your ball carrier to punch through.
I've seen alot of people run a cage formation and alot of them seem to know how to set it up and get it about 7 squares deep into enemy territory. After that, they seem to stall. They can't figure out how to get it into the endzone.
How do you do it? You don't. The point of the cage or wedge is to make a hole. Once you are withing 8 or so squares of the end zone you should break your ball carrier out and gun it!

[KnuckleGutKiller]

Well the problem with the Lizardmen is the ST of 4 this allows him two dice! I need to lineman on his 1 saurus just to bring it down to one dice. What do you think about not evn attacking him at all? just block and leave it at that because his AV is 9 just like mine so he takes a good beating to! he keeps his skinks far back so I cant ge them usally he gets one of his saurus away by the time I get to one of his skinks then takes all his skinks and a saurus on my one blitzed man that barley made it to him and he destroys my my guy. My last game I didn't really bother with the ball I just tried to kill his skinks any chance I had. Now I have a dead dwarf team which is hard to believe! My next opponent is humans so I hope I get some casulties so I can get some money I only have 30k right now.
As my last post stated we are also going to each pick another team the Lizard team player can not pick another Lizard team so far it looks like the Human team guy picked Wood elfs. The Lizard team guy picked humans me and the undead team player have no decided yet any ideas on another team I should be and how to save my dwarfs??

[Darkson]

Get some Guards.

[Dave]

Haven't played lizzies yet, so no comment on that one.

Playing a second team works really well in our league (I play 4!!)

Each player with more than one team has a list. The lower the team on his list, the less he'll play it.

My list is: WE, Norse, Undead, Halflings.

I play All my WE 's matches

I also play all my norse teams matches unless they play woodies.

And so on

This works quite well and I and other players in the league can even be found trying to kill off their own players !!

I actually killed about 10 halflings (in different matches) with my Norse. and my norse team, while played by my brother, killed some 5 WE by now ...

[Heiper]

Funny thing this, my next game is against Lizardman with my dwarfs and its so early in the league that i don't have any Guards yet. He might be reading this board so i won't say much about taking them down, but on attack, form a cage (small one with 5 including ball carrier) and the rest can keep the saurus away from the cage by just keeping tackle zones on them. He will then need to Blitz your players to get a Saurus even close to you cage (remeber they only have AG1), so basicly, you keep the saurus away from you cage pretty well. To stop the cage he then needs to fill up with skinks, and we all know how easy it is to get a Cas on skinks.

BTW, your slayers should be able to get some saurus down, you only need one assist and you have a 2 dice throw if you make the dauntless, and if they don't have block yet, well then it should be easy to keep them down.

I will see if this works in a real game soon, but you could try and see, doesn't hurt to change some tactics now and then. On defense, well thats already been said well enough in here. Hope this helps a bit.

[SartosaCenturion]

Well I don't have too much experience with dwarfs, but you could try a couple things on offense:

Offer up some linemen as sacrificial lambs to keep his line busy while your runner and blitzer types bust out around the sides. Not too subtle, but it could work if all his saurus are on the line and he's only got skinks in the backfield.

Or, if you're REALLY after his skinks, you could set up a line with as many tackle zones as possible, and just keep your ball carrier in the backfield as bait, and when the skinks dodge through, krunch them with a troll slayer. If he busts through with his saurus, you might be in a position to pass over them, too.

Well, good luck, although I don't think starting new teams is the way to beat him, especially if he's keeping the same one. Just making the experience gap that much worse.

[Marcus]

Use guard, man-mark the saurus. Saurus can not dodge out so they're easy to pin down. Once Lizardmen lose their Saurus cover you can send tacklers in on the skinks. Most Lizardmen drives will end with a skink flying wedge down the sideline, prepare for this.

[DoubleSkulls]

Lizzies are not unbeatable. Lizzies do have a very different balance to most other teams - S4 and stunties is a good combo.

It sounds from your description as if the Lizzie player was very good and knew exactly how to take on Dwarves. Also it sounds like his was lucky with casualties.

However Dwarves have lots of good things when facing Lizzies

1) Troll Slayers - blitz his saurus into the crowd - and even if he doesn't leave that open at least you've got dauntless so can get the 2 die blocks.

2) Tackle - lots of lovely tackle. Get longbeards on skinks. When blocking you'll hurt him and he can't easily dodge through your lines.

So tactics

1) Pin the saurus. If they block then they can't blitz or move

2) Defend deep. Always a good policy for Dwarves as you lack the mobility to get back.

3) Blitz skinks - use players with tackle. His Saurus can't move the ball so without skinks

4) Don't foul. If you haven't got a Dirty Player the odds are against you and Dwarves cannot afford to be men down.

[plasmoid]

Hi,
Lizardmen is probably my number 1 choice for a currently official borderline broken team.

Pin the saurus tactics are only viable until they get either break tackle or piling on. Once the Saurii start acquiring skills the team is very very strong.
Martin

[GalakStarscraper]

Hi,
Lizardmen is probably my number 1 choice for a currently official borderline broken team.

Pin the saurus tactics are only viable until they get either break tackle or piling on. Once the Saurii start acquiring skills the team is very very strong.
Martin

Funny a year ago, everyone said that no one could ever win with the team since the Skinks only got AG skills and +1 to injury ... funny how playtesting overcomes off the cuff in the long run ... eh?

Galak

[Thadrin]

MAJOR KEY THING YOU ARE MISSING: DON'T BE AFRAID OF ONE DICE BLOCKS.

Your Longbeard has Block. The Saurus doesn't. On a One dice block you get a 50% chance of the saurus eating turf.
Your Slayer has Dauntless and Frenzy. Most of the time he won't even need an assist, and if he doesn't get his man down then he has a second shot. This applies equally to attacking the Krox.
Get yourself a couple of guards and he's in trouble. Skinks crunchy. when you hit them with a small army of guys armed with Tackle. Use that runner and your blitzers behind the line to get in/remove the vital assists.

[Bob-the-Fish]

I've seen a dwarf team take down the scaley ones 3-0 before so it can be done. Tying down saurus with a single lineman (or longbeard in your case) will go along way towards stopping them cold. If his saurus are tied down they can't blitz or move which will leave his skinks open for attack. AV 9 and block should keep a longbeard going for most of the game and in a pinch, you can always throw 2-dice, his choice blocks if the saurus doesn't have block (this never works for me, but I've seen it done so I guess its just my bad luck )
As always, crunching skinks will keep his scoring options down and make his plays more predictable. You could try keeping 2 longbeards back in the wide zones to stop him from dodging down the sideline. Tackle goes a long way towards stopping skinks.

And if you keep losing, just blame the dice!

[Munkey]

Heh! I thought this too after a recent game, but I should have known better http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3271

Good advice above on 1D Blocks, you have only a 1/6 chance of going down from these but if you let him Block you chances are you will go down. Keep the sauri from moving by zoning them but if you can reduce the number standing then you will recieve less blocks next turn.

I found it useful to put pressure on the skinks, if you get the opportunity to zone them with a tackle player (:D you're Dwarves right!) then do it eventually you will force a re-roll from Dodges and with no dodge skill it's either use a team re-roll or TO.

Also if you can blitz a few skinks and get them off the pitch you may be able to get numerical superiority which helps whenyou need to gang up on the Sauri.

In the long run get Guard and remember the Trollslayers.

Good Luck