Orc teams too strong?

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:58 am

Whoops, got overtaken in posting by both BigD and Marcus (once)

but BigD; Dodging away; with Dwarfs???
I'd rather place a lot of 1on1 blocks...

BigD · Post by **BigD** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:01 am

Redfang, you're right of course. But my luck with 1 die blocks is worse than dodging. I'd rather create a line wasting the guys Blitz or using two maybe 3 dwarves to take out one player. And then foul the bugger while he's down. Okay, I don't get the SPP but if it gets a player of the pitch I don't care!

BigD

Tamper Magnitude · Post by **Tamper Magnitude** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:20 am

The race I most hate playing against with a hitting team is the Dwarves, they always seem rock hard compared to the Orcs. All but the runners start with Block, they have high armour, LB's get tackle, all get thick skull and generally Dwarf teams have more RR'S early on as well. Early Orc teams dish can dish it out a bit better than Dwarfs but dont take it as well.

Recent tourney I played in with my very fierce Chaos team, they'd been mothballed for years cos no-one would play them (they regularly stacked up 8+ cas per match, and didnt concede for 11 games straight). I ground the Orc team down, causing 6 casualties and KO'ing many, and won 2-0. Could only draw with the Dwarf team, 1-1, and 1-1 on casualties. Slayers were particularly annoying!

Longbeards first skill must be Guard, a whole row of those chaps with guard (+stand firm if your lucky) is a formidable defence!

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 12:35 pm

Run just inside the sidelines, frenzy orcs off the pitch with trollslayers, using guarding longbeards in support.

Practice that until you can do it in your sleep. Good tactic for Dwarves to use against any power team.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:49 pm

I know, but this guy has experience as a Norse coach as well. His orcs won't stand within 2 squares of the line too often...

It's partly just that I can't get through their armour, and that knowledge seems to make it even more difficult to do so

BobbyDavro · Post by **BobbyDavro** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:51 pm

It is true that our Orc coach is the most experienced coach, but we don't think that he is any better than the rest of us. Like I said, he tends to play a single offensive line (!)... which is one of the reasons that I can't see why no one can beat him. In fact no one has even managed to score against him in the league.

I haven't played him yet, no, but he has now gone for more than 10 games unbeaten (and possibly more), many of these before the league started.

We don't use any house rules that affect the actual game particularly, just the league structure.

Perhaps it is a case of inexperienced players not knowing how to break the line properly; that is certainly suggested by the fact that few other people here consider Orcs too cheap for what they are.

And yes, the Chaos team (mine) is close behind in the league, but I have played far fewer games, so I expect to lose when our teams do finally meet. But, I will give him a run for his money.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:33 am

Redfang: If he doesnt' stand within 2 squares of touch then just run past him and form a screen on the other side. It's not outside the bounds with Dwarves. Make him suffer if he blocks you and suffer if he doesn't - take the game to him.

As for getting through armour: The top two teams in the current ECBBL season are Orcs and Skaven. Orcs are on top with +16 Net TDs and +25 Net Casualties. Skaven are second with +17 Net TDs and -17 Net casualties. There are 2 league points separating the two teams. Based on that evidence, do you still think that ability to get through armour is a determining factor in being able to win games?

Bobby: Your chaos should mince his 1 line defence. Horns is good like that. Get in behind him and screen him off. Try not to get involved in a biffing war and see how he handles it when there's no ready targets to hit. Use your blocks to fend him away rather than dodge too much and keep your screen in tact.

Oh, and get kick

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:14 am

I don't remember exactly how, but somehow he prevented that as well
(deep defence I think...)

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:22 am

All dwarf coaches repeat after me: "I WILL ATTEMPT ONE DIE BLOCKS".

Its the almost universal Block that dwarfs have that makes them powerful, along with the almost universal ability to take Guard (if your F***ing Longbeards can ever get any SPPs...). Victimize the Lineorcs with one die blocks, use gang ups on the Blitzers, Slayers on the Black Orcs.

I actually find Orcs a pain to play against, because they are just about the only team who can go toe to toe with dwarfs and come away unscathed...but that's what balance is. It wouldn't be any fun if it was easy would it?

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:31 am

I completely agree with the above post by Thadrin.

And I want to add that although orcs might be hard to defeat with dwarfs, dwarfs have a much better time against agility teams than orcs (often)

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:08 pm

Much better time with AGility teams?
I have HELL with Wood Elves. Too damned fast and I'm crap at Armour rolls.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:12 pm

At least you get block on all (except runners) and tackle on most players.

Orcs don't, and thus see them flying all around the place all the time.

Never had too much trouble with agility teams (Wood Elfs are the most bothersome, I must admit)

Didn't say it was EASY altogether now, did I.

(Btw, my team almost got kicked to death by a more experienced WElf team once... all went well until in the last few rounds he started killing and niggling about 4 or 5 of my players...)

R

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:17 pm

My last game against Wood Elves I was down 50 odd TRR points, and my opponent kept getting Blitzes on the Kick off table.
I lost 5-1, without playing too badly. His team ended up winning our league title game 4-1.
THAT is trouble with Wood Elves. Anyway....back on topic....

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:28 pm

I'm sorry, in my league, we've never had any problems with the orc teams. They are the basic ST team, Chaos, undead and dwarves are the more specialixed teams. Don't think I've ever lost to orcs, unless I had to field like 8 players to begin with.

The Elves easily win against orcs. Think you need to work on your tactics.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 6:33 pm

The Elves easily win against orcs.

I think your leagues orc teams need to work on their tactics. The elves should have a hard time of taking the ball away at the very least. I know from experience the orc passing game is strong (in most cases sure hands is just as good as ag 4). In my original ftf league an orc team was one of the most competitive. Then again they had Morg, Varag, and a st 5 Bob.