Hypnotic Gaze and Wild Animal

[funnyfingers]

If a Wild Animal is hypnotized and fails a Wild Animal roll, is he still hypnotized?

Wild Animal (Extraordinary)
...
To represent this, immediately after declaring an Action with a Wild Animal,
roll a D6, adding 2 to the roll if taking a Block or Blitz Action. On a roll of
1-3, the Wild Animal does not move and roars in rage instead, and the
Action is wasted.

Hypnotic Gaze (Extraordinary)
...
If the Agility roll is successful, then the opposing player
loses his tackle zones and may not catch, intercept or pass the ball,
assist another player on a block or foul, or move voluntarily until the start
of his next action or the drive ends. If the roll fails, then the hypnotic gaze
has no effect.

Player Actions
You must declare which Action a player is going to take before
carrying out the Action. For example, you might say, “This player
is going to take a Block Action.”

I think it is safe to say that a failed Wild Animal roll results in staying hypnotized.

Do you agree?

[daloonieshaman]

no
His Action was a Block
granted the Wild Animal roll got in the way of the actual dice rolling ...
If a Blitz/Pass/Handoff/Foul is Declared and WA fails then that is your team Blitz/Pass/Handoff/Foul for the turn

[Wylder]

Agreed. Wild Animal merely says the action is wasted, not that it isn't an action.

[DoubleSkulls]

Agreed. Just attempting a WA roll is part of the action.

[funnyfingers]

I think the rules aren't written how they were intended then. The Wild Animal clearly states declaring an action and not actually starting an action. Even the players action quote uses the phrase declare an action before carrying it out.

I say an action was never started. You only declared which action you wanted to take and did not start it if you fail Wild Animal.

[alternat]

started or not, the action is wasted the very moment you declare it, and the rules are very clear about this.

declaring the action for the player is the very first step in its "activation" routine (that should better be described, somewhere).
when you pick the mino and declare the blitz for him, the hypnogaze is gone. If you fail the roll, the mino is not hypnogazed anymore but stays wild.

[GalakStarscraper]

I say an action was never started. You only declared which action you wanted to take and did not start it if you fail Wild Animal.

Logic doesn't carry through. How can an action be wasted if it was never started? It cannot ... thus the action was started as soon as you declare the action which is enough to turn off the effect of Hypnotic Gaze.

Galak

[funnyfingers]

The 'wasted' was probably written as a way to say that a blitz, handoff, or pass action could not be attempted by anybody else on the team. You "wasted" the blitz action if you fail bone head. You didn't start the blitz action though.

I just think these wordings are very specific. If you think the Wild Animal should no longer be hypnoed then change the wording.

[GalakStarscraper]

I repeat again ... you CANNOT waste something that you never were using.

If I never drive a car ... I cannot waste gasoline by driving too fast.

The english in that sentence is fine. In order to waste the blitz action you had to be able to use it. If you never used it ... it cannot be wasted. It cannot be used unless it was started. Thus funnyfingers ... IMO ... you are incorrect. The language is fine as is and doesn't need clarification.

Galak

[daloonieshaman]

Wild Animal (Extraordinary)
Wild Animals are uncontrollable creatures that rarely do exactly what a
coach wants of them. In fact, just about all you can really rely on them to
do is lash out at opposing players that move too close to them! To
represent this, immediately after declaring an Action with a Wild Animal,
roll a D6, adding 2 to the roll if taking a Block or Blitz Action. On a roll of
1-3, the Wild Animal does not move and roars in rage instead, and the
Action is wasted.

Bone-head (Extraordinary)
The player is not noted for his intelligence. Because of this you must roll
a D6 immediately after declaring an Action for the player, but before
taking the Action. On a roll of 1 they stand around trying to remember
what it is they’re meant to be doing. The player can’t do anything for the
turn, and the player’s team loses the declared Action for the turn. (So if a
Bone-head player declares a Blitz Action and rolls a 1, then the team
cannot declare another Blitz Action that turn.) The player loses his tackle
zones and may not catch, intercept or pass, assist another player on a
block or foul, or voluntarily move until he manages to roll a 2 or better at
the start of a future Action or the drive ends.

Really Stupid (Extraordinary)
This player is without doubt one of the dimmest creatures to ever take to
a Blood Bowl pitch (which considering the IQ of most other players, is
really saying something!). Because of this you must roll a D6 immediately
after declaring an Action for the player, but before taking the Action. If
there are one or more players from the same team standing adjacent to
the Really Stupid player’s square, and who aren’t Really Stupid, then add
2 to the D6 roll. On a result of 1-3 they stand around trying to remember
what it is they’re meant to be doing. The player can’t do anything for the
turn, and the player’s team loses the declared Action for that turn (for
example if a Really Stupid player declares a Blitz Action and fails the
Really Stupid roll, then the team cannot declare another Blitz Action that
turn). The player loses his tackle zones and may not catch, intercept or
pass the ball, assist another player on a block or foul, or voluntarily move
until he manages to
roll a successful result
for a Really Stupid roll
at the start of a future
Action or the drive
ends.

Blitz: The player may move a number of squares equal to their
MA. He may make one block during the move. The block may be
made at any point during the move, and ‘costs’ one square of
movement.
IMPORTANT: This Action may not be declared by more than one
player per turn. However, any player may perform a Blitz – the
player doesn’t have to be a Blitzer (Blitzers are just better at it
than other players).
Pass: The player may move a number of squares equal to his
MA. At the end of the move the player may pass the ball.
IMPORTANT: This Action may not be declared by more than one
player per turn

So according to the skill description and the CORE rules of the game the action is DECLARED once it is declared it is "used up" for the team that turn. According to all the neg traits above one one of the actions are DECLARED no one else on the team can use it.

Hypno is gone, the action is wasted and the game goes on

[funnyfingers]

daloonieshaman - You are almost arguing my point. The rules say DECLARE for everything. However with hypnotic gaze it says STARTS.

...until the START of his next action or the drive ends...

Again everything you posted says DECLARE.

[Grumbledook]

you start the action by declaring it

[Ullis]

daloonieshaman - You are almost arguing my point. The rules say DECLARE for everything. However with hypnotic gaze it says STARTS.

...until the START of his next action or the drive ends...

Again everything you posted says DECLARE.

Now I see what you mean. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're wondering whether an action starts at the same time as it is declared. Grumbledook answered this but without any proof. I'm going to argue that yes, an action starts at the declaration.

See Really Stupid (the same wording is used in Bonehead):

The player loses his tackle zones and may not catch, intercept or pass the ball, assist another player on a block or foul, or voluntarily move until he manages to roll a successful result for a Really Stupid roll at the start of a future Action or the drive ends.

So, TZ's are regained after a successful Really stupid roll at the start of the action. And another quote on when to take the roll (the wording in Bonehead, and Wild Animal too, is again the same):

Because of this you must roll a D6 immediately
after declaring an Action for the player, but before taking the Action.

This says that the roll is taken at the declaration. Looked at the first quote it's clear that the declaration and start happen at the same time, i.e. an action starts at the declaration.

Furthermore, this makes perfect sense with the general rules on actions. After an action is declared a player doesn't actually have to do anything such as move while moving or block while taking a block action. Really stupid, Boneheaded and Wild Animal players don't always get to make that choice. Furthermore, in addition to that, RS and BH'd players lose their TZ's.

[Waaagh]

I don't think that action starts when declaring.

The action starts when after declare you star doing something with player.

I see it this way, because you can do this:

1. Declare action: "i'm going to blitz with this guy" ->you don't roll anything, don't any player
2. You think again about this Blitz....
3. Undeclare action: "sorry, i will not take blitz, i will make move"
Blitz is not wasted

I know than "undeclare" is not in the rules, but i can't think of a bloodbowol game so ugly, when opponent don't allow me to do it this way.

[rodders]

this is getting overly confused for whats a simple explination (imo)

eg:

my snow troll has been hypno gazed

i declare a blitz > roll dice for wa > fail > action has started but failed therefore hypnogaze has gone player has zone back but blitz action has gone.


if i declare blitz > don't roll > rethink action and take none for time being (as above) > player is still gazed (no zone)