Passing without the ball

[mattgslater]

OK, you have a player with the ball, or who will take a hand-off. That player is elsewhere, and next turn you plan to move him up to form part of your hedging structure and drop a diagonal short pass. Because the pass is on the diagonal and you don't trust the uniformity of the board, you want to measure before you throw, rather than either set up in a suboptimal place or risk having to throw a long pass.

So you declare a Pass action with some player who doesn't have the ball: we all know that's legal, so far no problem. You move up to the square you want your passer to take the following turn, or maybe a square next to that, and end your movement.

Can you bust out the passing template and measure, even if you don't have the ball? If so, this would also be a defensive arrow-in-the-quiver for bash teams against long-passers. Not sure how deep you have to hedge in order to force a 6+? Mark the Thrower on a Pass action and measure.

[alternat]

uh?
you can measure everytime you want, during the movement of the passer.
page 12 of CRP.

[tchatter]

I am really failing to see the issue with measuring at anytime during your passers turn?

Between this post and the "ethical" post I am really struggling with why this is such an issue in Blood Bowl? I'm having a hard time picturing someone getting pissed off with me because I pre-measured my pass to be sure I could make it or that I place a marker somewhere, either on the bored or off to make sure I move to where I want to.

Is this the kind of cut-throat Blood Bowl that was talked about with the first CRP?

I am really confused as to why this is such an issue.

[besters]

I would let an opponent measure a pass at any time, whether he had declared a pass action or not.

[Fist of Gales]

I would let an opponent measure a pass at any time, whether he had declared a pass action or not.

This is also how we have always played it around here. I know there are some other games where you are not allowed to premeasure actions, but I did not think that this was the case in BB.

[mattgslater]

Ah. Interesting. I've played BB in quite a few west coast towns, and everywhere I've been, they've been sticklers for not measuring until you're done moving. Hmmm... that actually really bums me out, but that's 'cause complexity usually favors me. So the answer is "yes, it's ok" then, as all I have to do is declare the action and I can bust out the template.

[plasmoid]

It was a rule in 2nd ed.
It hasn't been for 16 years.

[mattgslater]

It was a rule in 2nd ed.
It hasn't been for 16 years.

That explains it, and also makes me feel old.

[omnimutant]

With the advent of the Passing Chart I don't see how anyone can stop you from counting squares anyway

[daloonieshaman]

actually it is a great tactic to count squares during your opponents turn (elsewhere of course) throws them off

[mattgslater]

With the advent of the Passing Chart I don't see how anyone can stop you from counting squares anyway

That chart ain't perfect!

[Grumbledook]

accusation useless without proof...

[mattgslater]

Fortunately, it's pretty easy to disprove a universal: all you need is an anecdote. My buddy ended up flinging a Long Pass instead of a Short Pass once, 'cause he went off the chart, but when he pulled out the template it measured out on the line. He did it anyway, and it went accurate. But still, he got surprised with an unexpected -1.

The problem isn't the chart: it's the board. The squares aren't exactly perfect. Personally, I think that's great, as the variances are too small to eyeball. Not only that, but the template is flexible and it's very hard to get an accurate read (even if it were stiff, you'd still not be assured of holding it level). That couple millimeters really matters sometimes.

[Grumbledook]

anecdote doesn't prove anything, you could have measured it wrong for example

picture of range ruler flat on the board is the only way you are going to do it

[mattgslater]

Understood. I don't think I'm saying anything you'd disagree with about the range ruler vs. the chart, just that they don't always agree and the range ruler (not a picture of the ruler flat on the board; the ruler, held by the passing player, as straight as possible) wins all disputes. An anecdote is sufficient, because all I have to prove is that it is possible that one could use the chart correctly and still be wrong. In a board game at least, if it happens, that means it's possible. I don't believe that he misread the chart, because I read it too, and besides, he was just barely on the line.

Frankly, that's not the real issue. The rules tell you when you can break out the passing template (any time during a Pass action), and where you can measure from (wherever the player is at whatever point he measures from). It would seem to me that just like a Dodge or a GFI, if you measure from a square, you're in that square, and go from there. There is no such rule for calculating or guessing: those rules accompany the passing template, but not your memory or your cheat sheet or your gut.