When to roll for knockouts

[Tim]

I carried home a little rules lawyering homework from Dungeon Bowl so i would like to get an answer ...

[...] At the next kick-off, before you set up any players, roll for each of your players that have been KO’d. On a roll of 1-3 they must remain in the KO’d box and may not be used, although you may roll again for them at the next kick-off. On a roll of 4-6 you must return the player to the Reserves box and can use them as normal from now on.

The question was if if the player setting up first knows if the opponents KOed players are available for the drive (which can make a difference if e.g. the only frenzy player is in the KO box). It's basically the question if the bold "you" in above sentence is plural or singular. I can see good points for you being singular in this context, as the second part of the sentence talks about "your players" and the following sentences also use "you" adressing the singular coach.

I've never seen this argument before and all people i've know roll the KOs before any player sets up, but i can see a vaild interpretation of the rule in the different way

[voyagers_uk]

My tuppence, is that the rules are talking to both participants therefore the YOU is plural. as is the YOUR

[purdindas]

I hope you puched the guy Tim

[alternat]

both coaches set up players for the kickoff, hence both coaches may roll to try and move KO players off the box.

I don't see any inconsistence in text, even if I'm not english.

[plasmoid]

I've played like that for quite a while.
And not to be a rules lawyer at all.
I don't see anything in the text inducation that it was plural, so I assumed it was for one coach (like the rest of the rulebook??)

Cheers
Martin

[Grumbledook]

I've played in quite a few leagues now and lots of tournaments all over the place and everyone has always both rolled for KOs at the same time before either team sets up.

[DoubleSkulls]

Roll for both teams before the kicking teams sets up.

[Tim]

Roll for both teams before the kicking teams sets up.

Thanks, I'll take that as the official answer. Any chance to get a clarification in the FAQ?

I hope you puched the guy Tim

Not required, he had a valid interpretation of an ambigous rules text. I was mainly surprised that this was the first time in 7 years of tournament play i stumbled over this interpretation.

Maybe it has something to do with German language, as we have different words for you (sing.) and you (pl.). So we usually first assume that "you" refers to singular (similar "du" in German, while the plural word "ihr" sounds completely different).

[GalakStarscraper]

Roll for both teams before the kicking teams sets up.

Thanks, I'll take that as the official answer. Any chance to get a clarification in the FAQ?

Send a PM to slup to ask him to add it to his FAQ as it won't go in the rulebook as that is done ... done ... done.

But Doubleskulls is absolutely correct. Both teams roll for KO'd rolls and then set up.

Galak

[daloonieshaman]

pg 11 of the rulebook
under injuries

8-9 KO’d – Take the player off the pitch and place them in the Dugout in the KO’d Players box. At the next kick-off, before you set up any players, roll for each of your players that have been KO’d. On a roll of 1-3 they must remain in the KO’d box and may not be used, although you may roll again for them at the next kick-off. On a roll of 4-6 you must return the player to the Reserves box and can use them as normal from now on.

no need to add that to the FAQ it is in the rules

[Darkson]

umm, that's the quote that Tim's posted above that is ambigous. All to do with the "you" being singular or plural.

[slup]

Roll for both teams before the kicking teams sets up.

Thanks, I'll take that as the official answer. Any chance to get a clarification in the FAQ?

Send a PM to slup to ask him to add it to his FAQ as it won't go in the rulebook as that is done ... done ... done.

But Doubleskulls is absolutely correct. Both teams roll for KO'd rolls and then set up.

Galak

No need for a PM, i have added it now

[slup]

pg 11 of the rulebook
under injuries

8-9 KO’d – Take the player off the pitch and place them in the Dugout in the KO’d Players box. At the next kick-off, before you set up any players, roll for each of your players that have been KO’d. On a roll of 1-3 they must remain in the KO’d box and may not be used, although you may roll again for them at the next kick-off. On a roll of 4-6 you must return the player to the Reserves box and can use them as normal from now on.

no need to add that to the FAQ it is in the rules

There are many things in the Q&A on this page that are allready in the rules.
The Q&A provides a different wording of the same text because coaches misunderstand what is written because they are human (or orc who just doesn't care or elf who think they know better or dwarf who are stuck in a previous version or goblin who try to cheat at every corner or halfling who have eaten the rulebook).

[alternat]

umm, that's the quote that Tim's posted above that is ambigous. All to do with the "you" being singular or plural.

I see no ambiguity, and never did, by the way.

I know that I'm repeating myself, but that's the case:
since both coaches are allowed to set up for kick-off, both coaches are also allowed to roll for KO. ditto.
no matter if that "you" is singular or plural: the words talk to both coaches, and the insurance given by galak and darkson simply confirm this interpretation.

[plasmoid]

I'll take any ruling - as long as we agree it isn't in the text

"You" set up at your players at very different times, so "you" could roll before you set up at very different times. If you take that before to mean immediately before then the difference becomes clearer.