Throwing Goblins (everyone must be sick of this topic)

[burglarboycie]

Evening all,
I have only had 1 game with my Goblin team and will admit that I really struggled with their rules!! (resulting in a 3-0 loss at the hands of a High Elf team). Is throwing a team mate really as difficult to achieve as i found it? If its not too long winded, could someone please run through the procedure for me as I'm not sure I was doing it correctly (I've only played half a dozen games of Blood Bowl ever so none of the rules are my strong point). Can a thrown team mate be aimed at a caged ball carrier in a hope to break it up?
Also, can a Pogo Goblin 'Leap' into a cage to break it up? I seem to think I read somewhere on here about it but don't seem to be able to find the post again. Whilst on the subject of the Pogo, assuming I've leapt over an opponent, am I right in thinking that i would then have to make a successful dodge roll to exit their tackle zone to continue moving?
And finally, i really didn't find my Troll as effective as I thought he/it should have been, whether it was just bad block dice rolls but the big fella didn't flatten as many Elves as I'd hoped he/it would!!! Again, probably down to my inexperience and not using him properly! I'm determined to make this team work!!! Please help!!
Sorry for the essay, but any help is greatly recieved/appreciated.
Thanks in advance
James

[Digger Goreman]

Always Hungry (Extraordinary)
.... Should the player ever use the Throw Team-Mate
skill, roll a D6 after he has finished moving, but before he throws his
team-mate. On a 2+ continue with the throw. On a roll of 1 he attempts to
eat the unfortunate team-mate! Roll the D6 again, a second 1 means that
he successfully scoffs the team-mate down, which kills the team-mate
without opportunity for recovery (Apothecaries, Regeneration or anything
else cannot be used). If the team-mate had the ball it will scatter once
from the team-mate's square. If the second roll is 2-6 the team-mate
squirms free and the Pass Action is automatically treated as a fumbled
pass. Fumble the player with the Right Stuff skill as normal.


Right Stuff (Extraordinary)
A player with the Right Stuff skill can be thrown by another player from
his team who has the Throw Team-Mate skill. See the Throw Team-Mate
skill entry below for details of how the player is thrown. When a player
with this skill is thrown or fumbled and ends up in an unoccupied square,
he must make a landing roll unless he landed on another player during
the throw. A landing roll is an Agility roll with a -1 modifier for each
opposing player’s tackle zone on the square he lands in. If he passes the
roll he lands on his feet. If the landing roll is failed or he landed on
another player during the throw he is Placed Prone and must pass an
Armour roll to avoid injury. If the player is not injured during his landing
he may take an Action later this turn if he has not already done so. A
failed landing roll or landing in the crowd does not cause a turnover,
unless he was holding the ball.

Throw Team-Mate (Extraordinary)
.... The player throwing must end the movement of his Pass
Action standing next to the intended team-mate to be thrown, who must
have the Right Stuff skill and be standing. The pass is worked out exactly
the same as the player with Throw Team-Mate passing a ball, except the
player must subtract 1 from the D6 roll when he passes the player,
fumbles are not automatically turnovers, and Long Pass or Long Bomb
range passes are not possible. In addition, accurate passes are treated
instead as inaccurate passes thus scattering the player three times as
players are heavier and harder to pass than a ball. The thrown player
cannot be intercepted. A fumbled team-mate will land in the square he
originally occupied. If the thrown player scatters off the pitch, he is
beaten up by the crowd in the same manner as a player who has been
pushed off the pitch. If the final square he scatters into is occupied by
another player, treat the player landed on as Knocked Down and roll for
Armour (even if already Prone or Stunned), and then the player being
thrown will scatter one more square. If the thrown player would land on
another player, continue to scatter the thrown player until he ends up in
an empty square or off the pitch (i.e. he cannot land on more than one
player)....

So:
1. Declare a Pass Action with the Troll
2. Roll 1d6 for Stupidity
3. Move the non-Stupid Troll (if necessary) next to the designated Goblin
4. Roll for "Always Hungry"
5. If Hungry, roll for death... or squirm free and make a landing roll. If not hungry, attempt to throw gobbo, fumbling on a natural/modified "1" and "inaccurate" on all other rolls....
6. Whether fumbled, squirmed free, or thrown... make a landing roll....
7. If Gobbo fails landing, roll for armor... otherwise:
8. A successfully landed Goblin, who has not taken an action yet, may possibly take an action later in the turn (barring a turnover)....

I think that works it out....

[Smeborg]

Hi James, and welcome to the wonderful world of Gobbos. Gobbos rely on "da cunnin' plan". Just remember that da plan is often more cunnin' in its conception than its execution. That is a large part of its charm.

Yes, throwing a Gobbo is a lengthy procedure, and the odds of success are long. The procedure, from memory, is:

Declare Pass action
Really Stupid roll
Move Troll (if at all)
Really Hungry roll (and its consequences if the roll is 1)
Pass roll (and consequences if fumbled)
Scatter procedure
Landing roll for the Gobbo (if by a miracle you have got this far)
Take an action with the Gobbo (if he has not taken one so far this turn)

You may lob a Gobbo at a cage in an attempt to bust it. Of course this is a desperate measure, with low odds of success, but this does not mean it should not be attempted, when conditions are right. Remember that the pass by the Troll is your Pass Action for the turn, so you cannot throw a Gobbo and the ball in the same turn (this makes scoring in 1 turn more difficult).

You may only leap into an empty square. You may leap into a square next to the ball carrier in a cage, and then attempt to block him as part of a Blitz action.

If you leap over a player and land in a tackle zone, you must dodge if you want to carry on moving (you are correct).

One of the secrets of Trolls is to give them as many 3-dice blocks as possible (with 2 assists they get to ST7 and can get 3-dice blocks against ST3 players). The other secret of Trolls is to realise that they do cause turnovers, therefore they need to be played passively sometimes (or used late in the turn, so that the adverse consequences of the turnover are lessened).

Gobbos teams fail a lot, but are entertaining when they succeed. They are also entertaining when they fail. For example, yesterday I had a chance of drawing a hard-fought match against Skaven if I could throw a Gobbo upfield on the penultimate turn. The Troll got hungry and I lost 2-3...

So relax and enjoy the outcome regardless of whether it is success or failure. For the rules, re-read the skill descriptions for Throw Team Mate and Right Stuff, plus the sections in the main rules on Throwing.

All the best, and let us know how you get on.

[purdindas]

What has been said so far is correct but I just thought I'd say that if your throwing a goblin at short pass range it's -1 to pass therefore a fumble on a 1 or a 2.

Trolls are the worst big guy in the game. You need gobbo's to boss them around in order to negate really stupid. He's also a loner which makes it really difficult for him to use rerolls. He might eat your goblin! He doesnt have onrmal access to useful skills like block. They can be an absolute nightmare to use. When a troll actually does something consider it a bonus.

[burglarboycie]

Wow!! Thanks for the helpful and in depth responses.
Digger Goreman, thats a great help. Thanks a lot. I notice you quoted LRB6, could i be cheeky and also ask for a link to that version as I have been working from LRB5.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the beating I took at the hands of the Elves, and was surprised that no Gobbos got mullered!! (resilient little blighters) I also managed to pull off the only successful interception I have ever seen!!! With a tiny Goblin!!!! I think I need to play more frequently to get to grips with the rules more, and possibly add a second Troll to double my chances of successful TTMs as i only have 1 Troll at the moment. I also find I struggle to adapt my game quickly. For example, after a turnover, going from offence to defence in a matter of seconds, thats what cost me 2TDs in my last game.
Thanks again gents for your help and advice.
James

[Ullis]

Odds for this to work:

Really Stupid roll, 2+ (with Loner)
Really Hungry roll (and its consequences if the roll is 1), 2+ (with Loner)
Pass roll (and consequences if fumbled), 3+ (with Loner)
Landing roll for the Gobbo (if by a miracle you have got this far), 4+

That alone works out to 23%. That means you'll have the gobbo standing and ready to move after the pass.

Now add ball handling (at least two 3+ rolls, one for pick up and the other for hand off) for a 1-turn TD and you're looking at 10%. And that's assuming that the ball lands close enough to the los to have a shot at handing over with no GFI's. Having a reroll helps of course as having one isn't factored into these numbers.

On a brighter note, if you're looking to bust a cage (in which case you can afford to fail the landing roll), the chances of getting the goblin flying are 46%! Now all you have to do is hit someone (I think Oxynot ran these numbers a while back so searching should throw them up).

In summary, throwing goblins is not easy and very much prone to fail. But the warm feeling you get on a succesful attempt more than make up for it! But building it into your tactics reliably is hard other than for the 1-turn attempt where the odds of success are 0% without.

[purdindas]

When it works its amazing. If ever I feel a bit down for any reason I look back at the time I scored from a TTM against my mate Dave nad I feel happier straight away. Good times.

[Darkson]

I notice you quoted LRB6, could i be cheeky and also ask for a link to that version as I have been working from LRB5.

LRB6 = CRaP rules available from GW:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... _Rules.pdf

[burglarboycie]

Thanks guys.
I'm hopefully going to have a game in the next few days so will try a few things out then.
James

[duckwing]

Just one little note. Everyone have been saying that the gobbo has to make a succesfull landing and end up standing if it is to make any action later on. Am I wrong to think that he is allowed an action even if he failed the landing and is knocked down, as long as he didn't brake armor?

[Darkson]

Just one little note. Everyone have been saying that the gobbo has to make a succesfull landing and end up standing if it is to make any action later on. Am I wrong to think that he is allowed an action even if he failed the landing and is knocked down, as long as he didn't brake armor?

If he hasn't already taken an action, correct.


@ burglarboycie: I'm not sure if it's changed, but I recall someone working the odds out for successful TTM attempts, and I think a Troll's was about 16%, so don't be surprised when they fail.

[GalakStarscraper]

If you want to throw players ... Halflings are the way to go.

A successful throw of a 'Fling standing next to a Treeman is only a 2+ and 4+ roll and you can use re-rolls on both rolls.

Galak

[Digger Goreman]

I notice you quoted LRB6, could i be cheeky and also ask for a link to that version as I have been working from LRB5.

LRB6 = CRaP rules available from GW:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... _Rules.pdf

See burglarboycie, you should always put up the:



sign before you get some bogus information.... That sterile, soul-less, artless piece of pre-pubescent, cut-n-paste CRaP at that link is NOT the primarily beautiful symphony that Galak, et al., worked out for us over the years....

You'll learn to love the great game, while cursing the corporate corpses, their evil barrister masters, and the assorted quislings that cling to the hell-bound train that is games workshop....

(Would you believe that, unless you're a "cut-throat" player, that the 3rd edition rulebook is now, by gw, considered re-official?!)

Boggles the mind....

[Da Shin Kikas]

...... But I thought the sign said "No Bullshit" ...?

[daloonieshaman]

By the way
get 2 Trolls and really drive yourself crazy
The Glory of the Gobbo is the One Turn Touchdown
Pick up the ball 3+
Move and often go for it to 2+, 2+ hand off 3+
RS on the Troll 2+
AH 2+
Throw Short 3+
Land in empty Square 4+
run For the TD (and usually have to GFI) 2+, 2+
no problem 10 dice rolls
your opponent's face when it works PRICELESS