Ogres, Dwarfs, Secret Weapons

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 8:47 am

viewtopic.php?t=3731

Following the above link you'll find a discussion about ogres in Dwarf teams. The outcome was (more or less) that Ogres don't fit in with Dwarfs, fluff-wise, but that the Dwarfs did need the ogre to copete with the other Strength teams. Furthermore it was posted that the ogre should be compensated for with the new secret weapon rules (Deathroller!) and/or more positional players (slayers/blitzers/blockers)

Who now thinks that the new secret weapon rules are capable of replacing the ogre in Dwarf teams?

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:04 am

give me a squishy Deathroller anyday!! Ogre's are not good enough for my Dwarves... then again... nor are my Blitzers or Runners...

actually, I'd like to see Secret Weapons as being purchasable seperately from Star Players, but that is a story for another thread I think...

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:13 am

For the umpteenth time, I don't like having ogres in Dwarf teams, fluff wise, the problem is however, that having a Str 5 guy is an enormous help against all the other S teams, also having str5 guys plus some str4 guys.

The Deathroller would have been great for that, but I'm not going to spend 80000 on something that's only on the field for one or two drives and that I loose again after 1 or 2 games That wasting my money!!!

I liked the weapon rules as they were in 4th edition (one of the very few good things to come from that).

That way with dwarfs allowed two PERMANENT weapons, they wouldn't need the ogre, and I'd be very happy.
Now...

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:14 am

I, btw, I know my ogre didn't do much at the Dutch open, but in an earlier tournament, it actually got me the chamionship, together with luck, of course

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:00 am

I personally see no problem with the Ogres, as a mercenary race, to be a part of the dwarven lineup.
No, the new SW rules are not sufficient to replace them, unless they are geared into a more dwarf-friendly direction. One option could be changing the alchemist into something that works with secret weapons - possibly you could get some for free, or perhaps he could repair the deathroller if it goes down?

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:02 am

One more thing: DWARVES not dwarfs

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:03 am

DWARVES is from Tolkien and points only to the higher races of Dwarf of which for instance Thorin Oakenshield is a member
DWARFS is the official english spelling!!!

Read The Hobbit!

R

PS Let's not start a Tolkien discussion here (again)

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:51 am

Redfang wrote:DWARVES is from Tolkien and points only to the higher races of Dwarf of which for instance Thorin Oakenshield is a member
DWARFS is the official english spelling!!!

Is that so? I stand corrected. I always thought that "dwarfs" or "elfs" was an incorrect way of writing them.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:13 pm

dunno i always used elves and dwarfs ;]

just checked on dictionary.com and elves is the plural of elf not elfs and either dwarves or dwarfs is correct for dwarf

anyway back on topic ogres shouldn't be in dwarf teams. I don't have a big guy on any of my league teams. I feel the only reason to have a big guy is to deal with another teams big guy. This seems silly to me and that people take big guys for the sake of it. With dauntless and guard big guys shouldn't be a problem, but of course none of my choas dwarfs have rolled a double to get dauntless :/

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:19 pm

Agreed, Big Guys are mostly necessary to fight of other Big Guys.

Now, I don't feel like taking to the field against 4 Str4 BOB, and an ogre without my own ogre. Guard is very nice as long as you dictate the blocks, but when you are being block, it can easily be avoided. Str4 + block, will evt always beat Str3 + Block + Guard!

Furthermore, Str5 makes it real easy for an ogre to smash its way into a cage, and when backed up by BOB's (especially BOB's with guard) you're NOT going to get it out with Str3 some guards and your trollslayers with Ag2 and AV8 occupied with either some other opponents or being KO'ed/injured.

R

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:22 pm

An ogre is a great help in your cage, then.

This is however not so much intended as a discussion of whether dwarfs need the ogre, that was discussed a long time ago already!

This is a discussion on whether the Secert weapons as the rules stand now make the ogre absolete for Dwarfs or not, and how they should be changed then.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:12 pm

I don't think Ogres are needed on a Dwarf team.

However the DeathRoller rules in BB Mag 5 are way too expensive making the roller not an option.

Bring back Weapons but make their use restricted to certain teams and possiblly positions and make the cost reasonable (I believe the roller should only be allowed 1 drive - after which it is immediately sent off - come on BB refs are not that bad are they - they can see that huge machine!).

Dave

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:20 pm

I think the idea of the roll was that they can see it, but that they are often a bit hmm reluctant to stand in front of it and tell it to get off the field...

The Deathroller isn't too expensive, it's just that the rules of weapons being taken by the ref is too bad to make the machine useful

R

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:18 pm

OK, I've held off... but now I'll make my silly suggestion...

Players in certain teams can purchase Secret Weapons before any game they play in... if the player suffers any injury worse than a BH, the weapon is lost and may be re-purchsed... using these rules, teams may have as many secret weapons as they wish to buy

Ball & Chain costs 20K
Chainsaw, Bombs & Pogo cost 40K
Deathroller costs 90K
Poison Dagger cost whatever as does blunderbuss blah blah blah...

OK, I don't have my Star Player cards in front of me right now, but based on additional costs, I would say these prices are fair...

I could buy my Longbeard a DR, but if he fails a GFI, or gets blocked, it is gone forever and I must buy a new one (for him or any other player to drive around on)... at the same time, if my Gobbo gets an injury and loses -1S, then I could buy him a ball & chain to compensate.. he'll probably die of a heart attack soon, but he might kill something first..

This way, SWs become more of a BB strategy than just a way to burn a few spare gold coins...

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:21 pm

That might very well work!

Sounds better than the current rules to say the least.

R

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