Skaven GR rolls 5-5

[gollumullog]

I just rolled the best (hardest decision) roll I think I could roll on my star Gutter Runner.

He has:
Block, Dodge, Sidestep, Fend
and rolled 5-5.

Can't decide what to take:
mv+1
guard
av+1
two heads

Leaning towards MV+1 currently. Although I already have a OTS on the team. Although I think the guard could be amazing too.

[burgun824]

No decision to make...you should have already taken the +MA. Next skill will be sprint.

Already have a OTS...well maybe two heads.

[Chris]

How much guard do you have considering you already have the 1 turner

[TalonBay]

Given how much heat my +MV GR attracts I'd take the +MV, this has multiple benefits:

- if the first one dies you've got a backup
- two are harder to shutdown than one
- the increased movement is awesome by itself
- the two can work together

I'd love to have a second to work alongside mine.

[gollumullog]

http://www.thunderbowl.ca/tbsn/index.ph ... obj_id=219

I have only 1 guard, and the team is very new. This player has had 52 spp's in 7 games, including 4 MVP's. I keep trying to spread out the points (no TD's for him in 3 games), but its not helping.

Normally I would choose the MV+1 right away, but the problem I see: won't get sprint for another 24 spp's, I have failed the last 4 attempts at a 1 turn td, die to failed pickups/catches/passes or gfi's.

The guard would be helpful all of the time (until that guy dies), would probably help him survive, has great synergy with his existing skills, and a gutter runner with guard is just awesome... Still leaning towards mv+1 though.

[mattgslater]

Take a RO(US), or take Grab at 51 or 76 for a Stormvermin. That'll make 1TTDs without Sprint very easy.

[Aliboon]

I think sprint is worth it for MA10 grunners. I had assumed that side-step would be enough, but there are defensive set ups that make it very tough to get that initial block and force lots of dodges.

Juggernaut and grab help, but by the time you have those skills, your opo is likely to have enough side-step/stand firm/fend to screw your plans.

I have a MA10, ST3 side-step grunner and it isn't that easy to get 1-turners with him against savvy opos. Luckily I rolled another 10 for a grunner and he will be getting sprint next for those 1-turners much easier. I will still get grab on a 'vermin to make it easier in certain situations, but with sprint, unless you roll poorly, it is very difficult to stop you and the best set-up reverts to the "8 men holding hands in a line" which isn't that great.

[Aliboon]

I think sprint is worth it for MA10 grunners. I had assumed that side-step would be enough, but there are defensive set ups that make it very tough to get that initial block and force lots of dodges.

Juggernaut and grab help, but by the time you have those skills, your opo is likely to have enough side-step/stand firm/fend to screw your plans.

I have a MA10, ST3 side-step grunner and it isn't that easy to get 1-turners with him against savvy opos. Luckily I rolled another 10 for a grunner and he will be getting sprint next for those 1-turners much easier. I will still get grab on a 'vermin to make it easier in certain situations, but with sprint, unless you roll poorly, it is very difficult to stop you and the best set-up reverts to the "8 men holding hands in a line" which isn't that great.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, but you also gotta get through the backline. That's the beauty of Grab: you keep your Blitz.

In a smaller league, you can look at composition and decide if you're better off with one technique or the other. I don't think either coach has to limit himself here: a RO, a Blitzer with Grab, and a Sprint/MA10 GR, and you can take your pick. OP has two MA10 GRs, and can give one Sprint and the other Dauntless or Leap, so he can decide based on the defense whether to just try a 13-square dash, or to chain into a backline blitz or leap. Aliboon has a ST3/MA10 guy; I'd maybe take Block first to keep him alive, but if he makes 76, he'll be able to play double-duty.

Also, I'm kind of down on Side Step as a 1TTD skill. It's low-value on Skaven, except on marker GRs (not +ST guy, he's too rare to mark with). Skaven can't play the positioning game, because they can't load up on positioning skills, have sucky AV, get both Mutations and Agility skills only on doubles with their ST3 guys, and are generally a team designed around collapsing but winning anyway, while Side Step is at its best when it's about not collapsing in the first place (admittedly, it has a place in the realm of desperate shenanigans, but it's not the same). It's a very powerful and versatile skill on a Blodge player, so I'm not saying you shouldn't take it, but if you're thinking 1TTD for the player, the skill power advantage of SS, muted as it is by the constraints of team race, is not enough to make up for the relative utility on 1TTD games of skills like Sprint, Sure Feet, Pro (for catch or blitz or GFI), or Leap.

[Aliboon]

Grab does help and it saves your blitz (but only the 'vermin are really candidates and there are much better skills for them to start with), but who is fast enough to actually reach the back line? The other grunners - and even they will need gfis, they are ST2, so by the time you've actually reached the back line, bought up assists and done the block with a ST2 player, then the odds aren't that much better than the 4+, 3+, 2+ with dodges (and certainly not the 3+, 2+ leap).

Experience has showed me that in my league, I am missing sprint, I thought it would be a waste of a skill as it would be so situation but I will be getting it for my "rookie" MA10 (wrestle) grunner (who will probably die on the last gfi first time he uses it...). The other (10348) Blodge and side-step will open the hole in the back line and is 86 spps away from his next skill so no more options on him.

There are different ways of 1-turning and depending on your league, this dictates how easy they are to do. Personally I'm building several different ways to make it easier and although it pains me to say it (as it seems a bit of an noob easy option), sprint is worth it.

[burgun824]

Take a RO(US)...

Tricksy hobbitsees. Trying to sneak a Princess Bride reference in there. Nice.