Long term success in a league

[pauli42]

@mattgslater: What a great posting..wow! Can you please add your opinion about the lbr6 teams (Slan, Underworld and my favorit the Chaos Pact)?

[DoubleSkulls]

So, if you were to take part in a large league and looking to play over many seasons, what team would you pick to give you the best chance of winning year after year?

The one you are best with

Matt's list is a long way from where I'd be too.

[Hitonagashi]

Aye, I'd just add to Matt's points that Lizardmen have actually got a massive boost with LRB6. Journeyman skinks have increased their league effectiveness by a huge margin, as several MNG's don't leave you crippled.

In addition, I believe they are by far the best team in the game for using inducements. I'd put them in the good pile!

[Smeborg]

So, if you were to take part in a large league and looking to play over many seasons, what team would you pick to give you the best chance of winning year after year?

The one you are best with

Matt's list is a long way from where I'd be too.

+1

[Viajero]

Interestingly in Matt´s list Woodies are not on the winners section!

Admitedly I have only been part to a limited number of long term leagues around, but in some of those (OCC, as Dode pointed out for example) Woodies have been very very consistently winning.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Well of course Matt's list isn't perfect as it is a very subjective topic.
I personally think Wood Elves are a top team although I think their dominance of the Cyanide league could be a bit misleading because it was Flix who won with them and he would have dominated Cyanide whatever team he chose to use.
If you are going in to a long term league I think the most important thing is a love for the team you are using, be it play style, look or background.
For example I am sure Smeborg would rather play 100 games with a Nurgle team than with any other, and at the end of the day enjoying your time is more important than winning or losing.

[spubbbba]

Is there much evidence that people are able to develop and maintain a claw/MB/PO heavy teams in tabletop leagues?

With a small closed league there is a different dynamic and the other coaches will react to how you develop your team. So if you go claw heavy there may be an increase of AV 7 teams whilst if you favour PO then there may be a lot more fend and dp on the scene.

Chaos can certainly dish out the pain but are not that fantastic at taking it in return so there are plenty of other bashers than can hurt them and their players are mediocre off the bat. If a Chaos team is the runaway league success then some coaches may well decide to try and do some damage rather than get a result.

[Viajero]

Chaos can certainly dish out the pain but are not that fantastic at taking it in return so there are plenty of other bashers than can hurt them and their players are mediocre off the bat. If a Chaos team is the runaway league success then some coaches may well decide to try and do some damage rather than get a result.

Uh oh... I can feel it coming! TFF´s very own "Claw is OP" thread!!!

[DoubleSkulls]

Good job there hasn't been one before

[dode74]

Well of course Matt's list isn't perfect as it is a very subjective topic.
I personally think Wood Elves are a top team although I think their dominance of the Cyanide league could be a bit misleading because it was Flix who won with them and he would have dominated Cyanide whatever team he chose to use.

That may or may not be true regarding Flix, seeing as he did actually come 6th out of 10 in the last season he played. Of the 10 seasons so far, winners were:
1* - Wood Elves - Enarion
2* - Wood Elves - Enarion
3 - Orcs - General Kale
4 - Chaos - stygger
5 - Wood Elves - Flix
6 - Wood Elves - Flix
7 - Wood Elves - Flix
8 - Wood Elves - Flix
9 - Wood Elves - Flix
10 - Lizards - Tigga
* = Seasons 1 & 2 had 14 teams per division, S3 onwards has been 10.
After 6 matches played in S11 Tigga leads the field by 5 points, so a likely second win for Lizards.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Well my point was that I don't think you can put too much faith in Cyanide results as the level of play is so low.
Flix is above average on FUMBBL so it doesn't surprise me that he won 5 seasons in a row over there.
As I said though I do believe Wood Elves to be a top team for league play.

[garion]

also they dont have Chaos Dwarves

[DoubleSkulls]

A sample of 4 races across 5 coaches proves very little, other than the relative abilities of the coaches compared to the competition.

[mattgslater]

Oh, I was just talking about winners and losers between the editions. I don't count Wood Elves among the biggest winners in the new rules, but I do count them among the best teams. LRB6 is very friendly to fast, cheap, and lightly-armored, and on those counts Wood Elves score great, miserable, and great, respectively. The new Catcher is a real step down (I didn't believe this at first, but now I do). The extra MA on the linos is decidedly less cool now that "spread the love" is no longer a High Commandment. And the inability to carry a bench and maintain TV efficiency means that even good coaches will get creamed from time to time. Used to be you'd suffer if you went below 11 men, but now you can't go above 12 or so, so even if you're having great money luck you'll have a hard time retaining skills and players. POMB and the weakened Apothecary are no help, either.

I'll bow to Hito's vastly superior experience on Lizardmen. We don't see them a lot in my home league.

It used to be that the creme de la creme of BB were: Wood Elves, then Dwarfs, then Orcs, Skaven, Undead, and maybe Amazons or Chaos Dwarfs. Now, the creme de la creme are all Wood Elves, Amazons, Chaos, Nurgle, Skaven, and maybe Chaos Dwarfs.

What I was really trying to say is: the new rules really screw non-Chaotic bash teams. Orcs have great player quality, so they can kind of survive in this environment, but they don't thrive like they used to, or even like they should. Dwarfs have been hit harder than anybody, though, and are simply non-competitive. This is a crime. These two teams should be among the top of Tier One, because they're among the classic fantasy races. Khemri and Undead take it in the shorts too, for the same basic reason as Orcs: they have to put their best players up to take hits.

[dode74]

@ mattgslater

And the inability to carry a bench and maintain TV efficiency means that even good coaches will get creamed from time to time. Used to be you'd suffer if you went below 11 men, but now you can't go above 12 or so, so even if you're having great money luck you'll have a hard time retaining skills and players.

Surely this is a TV-based MM problem rather than a CRP one? Leagues themselves seem to be less concerned about bloat due to the ability to see who their next opponent will be, which I think is a major failing in all of the MM systems and a major reason for the need to be quite as efficient as seems to be the case in that environment.

I don't agree with your assessment regarding Orcs inability to be competitive, either. They are doing just fine in OCC and seem set to take at least 3 of the 8 promotion spots into div 1 this season.

A sample of 4 races across 5 coaches proves very little, other than the relative abilities of the coaches compared to the competition.

It's not claimed as proof of anything, merely an example of a fairly large (200+ coaches) league and how the results have come up.

Well my point was that I don't think you can put too much faith in Cyanide results as the level of play is so low.

While that is indisputable in the public leagues, it is not so true in private scheduled leagues. Even FOL (managed open league) has a higher standard of play than the public leagues, by all accounts. Dismissing Cyanide leagues out of hand reeks of elitism