The DE runner...

[soranos]

...still feels like one of the weirdest players to me. It appears to be one of the very few positionals in the games where 2 or 3 "best builds" have not emerged so far. It is not even certain if you would want him on your team anyway. You normally pick him up in the 4 Blitzer starting build as kind of a throw-in, but might struggle to justify a re-buy, if there are also witches,RRs and potentially an assassin to pick up.

I'm interested in what everybody thinks the best build and use for this player type is.

There is the pure thrower build.
There is the maximize Dump-off build (NoS as the key skill)
The 5th Blitzer/MA7-Lino build (blodge, SS, Tackle,...)
And some stuff in between.

The problem which I and probably almost everybody else sees is, that he will never be particularly great at any task. Other elf throwers will always be ahead of him and can afford to pick up the survival skills that he can't until later. He will never be more than the potentially 7th best blitzer on your team. With AV7 you don't want him to get hit, so a Dump-off build player might not get a lot of milage, if you really push it.

On my LRb4-based Ranked team, I don't have one, on my League team he strangely enough is one of my best players. I personally feel his best build might be a hybrid-runner/thrower. He has Dodge-Block-Pass so far and plan to give him Sure Hands and accurate afterwards (never plan for a 6th skill). Still I struggle with the question, if I would even get another one, if I were to lose him. He is a luxury on the DE team, ideally an offense-only guy.

So how do you guys build up your DE runners?...and what do you give them on doubles?

[MattDakka]

...still feels like one of the weirdest players to me. It appears to be one of the very few positionals in the games where 2 or 3 "best builds" have not emerged so far. It is not even certain if you would want him on your team anyway. You normally pick him up in the 4 Blitzer starting build as kind of a throw-in, but might struggle to justify a re-buy, if there are also witches,RRs and potentially an assassin to pick up.

I'm interested in what everybody thinks the best build and use for this player type is.

There is the pure thrower build.
There is the maximize Dump-off build (NoS as the key skill)
The 5th Blitzer/MA7-Lino build (blodge, SS, Tackle,...)
And some stuff in between.

The problem which I and probably almost everybody else sees is, that he will never be particularly great at any task. Other elf throwers will always be ahead of him and can afford to pick up the survival skills that he can't until later. He will never be more than the potentially 7th best blitzer on your team. With AV7 you don't want him to get hit, so a Dump-off build player might not get a lot of milage, if you really push it.

On my LRb4-based Ranked team, I don't have one, on my League team he strangely enough is one of my best players. I personally feel his best build might be a hybrid-runner/thrower. He has Dodge-Block-Pass so far and plan to give him Sure Hands and accurate afterwards (never plan for a 6th skill). Still I struggle with the question, if I would even get another one, if I were to lose him. He is a luxury on the DE team, ideally an offense-only guy.

So how do you guys build up your DE runners?...and what do you give them on doubles?

I'm skilling up mine as a Runner-type, with Dodge, Block on my mind, I rolled a double and took Guard, he's useful both in offence and in defence (Guard helps a lot, especially when one of the cage's corner is attacked).
Another use I would consider is as Leader-caddy, to keep TV low.
The problem with your hybrid build, in my opinion, is that your runner doesn't perform well as Thrower, it would be better to choose one path, pure Thrower (Pass, Accurate, Safe Throw) or pure Runner (Dodge, Block, Side Step or Sure Hands).
Using two Runners in the same team is not viable, too much TV-bloat, so for me it's better to choose just one role pattern, not a way in the middle.
Doubles: for the Thrower Strong Arm, for the Runner Guard.
Guard is better than Nerves of Steel, for a simple reason: it's far less situational, in a match you will more likely use Guard than Nerves of Steel, especially if you play carefully.

[DoubleSkulls]

I've seen DE teams very effectively use the "dump off" build to make it really difficult to get the ball off them.

[dode74]

I've seen DE teams very effectively use the "dump off" build to make it really difficult to get the ball off them.

This. Two of these can make it very hard to get the ball away from them, and their MA makes them a decent BC.

Personally I go for blodge straight off the bat for survivability. I then go pass for the free RR on the DO or the pass for added flexibility, on the basis that if my opponent is getting multiple TZs on my BC before blocking then my positioning is screwed or he has some crazy cage-breaking capability like multiple leaps. Accurate next can also help with the passing game and also ameliorate some of the effect of TZs during the DO, although I might take leader depending on my TV and RR situation. I think I'd take guard on doubles purely to make him of use on defence.

[Smeborg]

For my part, I don't think "maximise D-Off" is the best way to go (although I wouldn't go so far as to describe it as wrong). A High Elf Thrower makes a better dumpster than a DE Runner (2 relevant starting skills instead of 1). Also, the DEs should be spending most of their time on defense, for which D-Off is largely irrelevant.

The DE Runner is not a great addition to the team, but he does represent a small improvement. I believe his best use is simply as a Leader caddy, whether in a league or in a tournament. 1 is probably enough, although 2 gives you the maximum MA for the team (3 linos @ MA6, 8 positionals @ MA7). When I take 2, 1 of them seems to always be in skill deficit.

I generally go: Leader, Dodge, S-Hands. After that you have many choices, including Block, KoR, Pass etc. I don't think it much matters.

Hope that helps.

[Bert]

I run these going straight for the NOS, Dodge, Block build (Pro 4th skill) and I loved running 2 of them. With 2 your offense is set, they get Spps dumping off, running up the pitch and if you want scoring TDs. This frees your entire team to being aggressive on offence throwing blocks, the balls taken care of. If you think this is too much bloat then only run with one, you then need your team to provide a screen as you advance up pitch.

On defense this player also has a purpose, when you get the ball loose this player can get it and will not give it back. It has a very selfish sense to it and is very appropriate for Darkelves.

Theres a ton of differing opinions on how to run this player and some dont even use them. For me they were the stars of the team and farmed SPPs between the QPs and TDs.

[Ullis]

I remember playing against Dark elves a few weeks back and blitzing the runner when the opposing teams formation came loose. I'd forgotten about Dump off and was like, great, now I won't get the ball off him. The dump off came up 2 and was fumbled, I only got pushes on the block which I didn't have to reroll! How sweet was that?

[dines]

I gave mine pass, dodge, accurate in that order. The idea is that pass both works on normal throwing and DO, but must admit the DO didn't got much use with my playstyle. Usually went with a more fluid cage/screen style rather than inviting opponents to blitz my ballcarrier. Dodge second in the case he just get a tacklezone on him.

If I take up the darkies again, I might experiment a bit more with his role, getting a bit more use out of DO just for fun.

[Hitonagashi]

For my part, I don't think "maximise D-Off" is the best way to go (although I wouldn't go so far as to describe it as wrong). A High Elf Thrower makes a better dumpster than a DE Runner (2 relevant starting skills instead of 1). Also, the DEs should be spending most of their time on defense, for which D-Off is largely irrelevant.

Hmm, disagree there. I always 8 turn stall with my DE if I can...DE are very good at defense, so I trust that I can turn the opponent over second half and be 2-0 up by turn 13..which is usually game.

Personally, I like the runner purely for the +1 mv. My ball carrier never gets hit unless I've done something wrong, so DO isn't super useful. A nice trick for emergencies(such as playing against a st 5 ag 5 wardancer), but I wouldn't waste TV on skills to use it.

[spubbbba]

Personally, I like the runner purely for the +1 mv. My ball carrier never gets hit unless I've done something wrong, so DO isn't super useful. A nice trick for emergencies(such as playing against a st 5 ag 5 wardancer), but I wouldn't waste TV on skills to use it.

Agreed, the trouble with building him to be a dump off specialist is that to use the skill you need to get hit. Which is not ideal if the player is hey to your offence and has av7 with no defensive skills.

[dines]

Personally, I like the runner purely for the +1 mv. My ball carrier never gets hit unless I've done something wrong, so DO isn't super useful. A nice trick for emergencies(such as playing against a st 5 ag 5 wardancer), but I wouldn't waste TV on skills to use it.

Agreed, the trouble with building him to be a dump off specialist is that to use the skill you need to get hit. Which is not ideal if the player is hey to your offence and has av7 with no defensive skills.

Yeah unless you go pure thrower dodge is essential imo. But if you would play more around with the DO idea, wrestle could be fun but risky.

[DoubleSkulls]

If you are going down the DO route Wrestle is much better than Block since you put the blitzing player prone so they can't carry on moving.

[KFoged]

I got a blodger pass runner who just rolled double on my DE league team.

The team is in our semifinale and if i gets to the final the opponent could be using Rats with some really good gutters and a beast blitzer. I'm really temped to take the NoS just to make the Dump off better (i did win the final last year with two times dump off against him). But i guess guard will be better and make him usefull on def. also?

KFoged

[dines]

If you are going down the DO route Wrestle is much better than Block since you put the blitzing player prone so they can't carry on moving.

Right, but you may not want to DO everytime you get blitzed, therefore wrestle might be dangerous. Eg. a rookie slann lino 1d blitzes your runner with wrestle, dodge, what to do? What if no team members are nearby? If you had block, I'd forgo the DO and just hoping to keep on standing.

[txapo]

I love playing with both runners 4 blitzers and both witches, the team goes insane!!!

specially as the runners are the ones that normally score, so both get blodge. One got 1+AG so he is a cracker!! and a great loose ball retriver! The other is the leader of the team!