Dealing with overdog lurkers

[sunnyside]

So I'm seeing a thing in my current league where there a number claw POMB bomber bash teams in the 230-270TV range.

The league works on a challenge structure where new teams start out at 100TV, and getting to the finals is determined by win/lose/draw percentages with some elaborations based on the opponents record.

Either through some sort of back door deal, or just because they don't want to play hard games where they might lose players, the players with those teams no longer challenge each other during league play, and instead focus on going after the lower TV teams. Cherry picking their way to the finals.

So the question then, is if there are techniques with any builds with any race that would be good for beating a claw pomb based opponent while a 100+ TV underdog? Inducements get a little weird at that level. For example, forget drawing a card, you could just ask to be handed the whole dirty tricks deck.

[garion]

No there isn't hence all the whinning about this silly, far too easily obtainable combo.

The only thing you can do is induce a player with MB and a secret weapon (usually chainsaw) get a load of bribes, and foul with your chainsaw lots and lots, and blitz any av8 players with the combo with your MB player every turn then run him to safety.

If you get very lucky the fouls may work, if not the game will be over. But it probably was before it started.

but fouling every turn will at least make them sweat and if the whole league agree to do it against them, then they will start losing players lol

[Corvidius]

Can you refuse a challenge? If so then simply freeze them out. If they don't challenge fair teams (or fairer teams at least) beat them at their own game by getting your challenges in first. If they're abusing a league mechanic then fix the mechanic or use the same trick.

We used to run a challenge system years ago and it's useful because you can avoid playing folks that are pains outwith the game. I'd suggest a ruling whereby you can only challenge upwards of your tv but that's abusable as well.

[dode74]

CRP suggests you can refuse a challenge and nominate a new opponent. Make them play each other!

[nazgob]

My response to claw/MB teams is to use Elves. You might get bashed to hell and back, but with enough inducements, it's pretty easy for you to get a turn over score, and very easy for you to score yourself. Make them work for it.

Wood Elves for preference.

If you combine Eldril Sidewinder and a wizard it gets pretty easy to bust a cage.

[Chris]

Take a goblin team with the expectation of getting wiped out, but foul, bomb, chainsaw and troll the other team as much as possible. You can get 2 chainsaws etc with the secret weapons and stars.
Get a couple of people doing this and issueing challenges to the 'hard' teams and see casualties starting to appear. I assume you are playing with a tv cap where the winnings start to evaporate? Inducements, chainsaw no. 2, chef, wizard for fireball, all the bribes, then ripper, morg, ball and chain 2 or bomber 2 depending on cash remaining. Can also get a load of mercs.

[swilhelm73]

If you want to beat them, elves - I'd say Pro Elves since they are base Av7 anyway.

If you want to mess them up, Gobs, or even Flings.

With Flings you could bring Morg and Deeproot to give 4 ST6+ players and just foul like a mad man. Add in the chef and if they don't have much tackle you could even pull off a win.

[Smeborg]

So the question then, is if there are techniques with any builds with any race that would be good for beating a claw pomb based opponent while a 100+ TV underdog? Inducements get a little weird at that level. For example, forget drawing a card, you could just ask to be handed the whole dirty tricks deck.

I can think of another way to have fun, assuming the ClawPOMB teams lack Grab (they usually do). Take Norse, induce (say) 4 Merc Linos with Fend (for the defensive LOS), a Snow Troll with M-Blow (for blitzing), spending the remaining 260,000+ on more "normal" inducements (e.g. Wizard, Bribe(s), Babes) . You don't care if the Merc players die, provided the Fenders at least hang around for a while. Blitz with the SnoT, foul a lot. Get your mates to do the same. Make sure each lurker team has to play several successive matches of this kind. Target the killer players.

But I have to agree that a better method is for nobody to challenge the high TV lurker teams, and to refuse their challenges. Since every BB league is a social club, social sanctions of this kind are bound to work best.

[Ullis]

Pro elves sound like they could work. Hubris rakarth (260), Prince Moranion or Eldril (200-230), a few mercs for los duty (2x90) and a wizard (150), backed up with babes (100). That comes out at 890-920k. Then buy apos, bribes to foul with Hubris, or give one of the mercs DP so you can blitz with Hubris's Mighty Blow, and cards to round it out.

That set gives you a bench and a way to stop their offence.

But really, you should really work on a solution within a league. In our casual league we use ELO points and you can only challenge upwards. This creates issues for rookie teams that win a lot but they have it coming.

[DoubleSkulls]

Amazons...

[garion]

Amazons...

That sounds like a fun league, 8 rookie amazons and 2 killer chaos.

[nick_nameless]

I guess you have to be willing to meta-game....

Take skills like Fend, Wrestle, Guard, Dodge, Sidestep, Jump Up, Dirty Player, Sneaky Git*

*only after DP, of course

Use AV 7 teams with cheap players and keep a long bench.

None of that is ground breaking, but it will help. Make sure the other team has to step to you to make initial contact.

Dark Elves, Norse, Amazons, Wood Elves (any elves really), Skaven, maybe even Underworld all would work. Necro and Undead should fare okay with regen.

The Block, Claw, Mighty Blow, Piling On players are certainly meta-gaming, so all you can do is meta-game back at them. You could probably dominate that league with a skaven team built well.

[Genghis]

Start a Necro team. Two claw players, loads of regeneration, cheap LOS and foulers, Wilhelm and Hack available for inducements... You could start to put a dent in their teams with that.

[swilhelm73]

Start a Necro team. Two claw players, loads of regeneration, cheap LOS and foulers, Wilhelm and Hack available for inducements... You could start to put a dent in their teams with that.

Out of the box, I don't think necro is a great choice.

The wolves will be easy targets with no block/dodges. The FGs are obvious targets for Claw. And no guard means it will be tough to setup the wolves.

I would presume a developed kill Chaos team would force a newish Necro to play a more elvish style only not as well.

Once you get some skills yes, it is a much better match up, again presuming these killer chaos teams don't have much tackle. Blodging/SS wolves can be a real problem for traditional bash teams.

[SillySod]

Halflings, Goblins, Skaven, and Wood Elves are all valid anti-metagame teams. Norse if you are an incredible finesse player. The trouble is that you really need to know what you are doing otherwise you will still get crushed. Wood elves are definately the easiest option. Buy lots of dodge positionals for your starting team, you need to spam them even at the expense of re-rolls.

Whatever you do dont take a bash team. A rookie bash team has no option other than to get tied up in a blocking war where they will get outguarded and torn apart by claw chaos.