Slann League Team

[nick_nameless]

Hi Folks. Sorry to have been absent from the discussion for a while. I had my life turned on it's head and have been trying to sort that out...but regardless of that I have a league starting this week and am back in the fray!

So my Slann team is returning for it's second season. It currently looks like this:

LF - +AG, Block, Strip Ball 46 SPPs (Next skill - looking at tackle, on doubles dodge, side step, guard, stand firm, mightly blow, jump up, Juggernaut)
LF - Wrestle, Fend, NI 22 SPPs (Next skill - looking at tackle, on doubles on doubles dodge, guard, jump up)
LF - Wrestle 8 SPPs (Next skill - looking at Fend, tackle, on on doubles dodge, guard, jump up)
LF - +St, Block 20 SPPs (Next skill - looking at Frenzy, tackle, on doubles Mighty Blow jump up)
LF - Wrestle 7 SPPs (Next skill - looking at Fend, tackle, on doubles dodge, guard, jump up)
Catcher - Block, Dodge, Guard, +MA 66 SPPs (Next skill - looking at Sure Hands, Pass Block*, Fend, Side Step)
Catcher - Kick-Off Return, Block, +MA 43 SPPs (Next skill - looking at Dodge, Sure Hands, Pass Block*, Fend, on Doubles Guard)
Catcher - Kick-Off Return, Block, Pass 46 SPPs (Next skill - looking at Sure Hands, Dodge, on doubles Guard, Hail Mary Pass)
Blitzer - Wrestle 11 SPPs (Next skill - Stand Firm, Dodge)
Blitzer - Block 8 SPPs (Next skill - Side Step, Mighty Blow, Tackle)
Blitzer - Block 6 SPPs (Next skill - Side Step, Mighty Blow, Tackle)
Blitzer - 0 SPPs (Next skill - Wrestle, Stand Firm, Dodge)

5 Rerolls, FF 9, Asst Coach, Cheerleader, 50K treasury, TV 1920, overall record of the team in it's life is 8 wins 6 losses 5draws, 41 TDs scored, 32 TDs surrendered. Losing the casualty battle by a lot.

* I should say that before the schedule was put together I was considering Pass Block. People in my league pass the ball, and 2 slann catchers with Pass Block would shut that down. I feel like this would give me a better chance to beat the 'elf' teams of the world.

It seems that the schedule gods do not like Frogs and want to see them as road kill. My schedule is:
Orcs @ 1720
Underworld** (bashy) 1690
Nurgle (very bash style) 2040
Norse 1040
Dwarves 1740
Orcs 2000
Chaos Pact 1470
High Elves 1430
Dark Elves 1900
Underworld** 1690

TVs subject to development, of course.
**Same team

So I am looking at this schedule trying to figure out how I am going to survive to the stretch run where I catch a little bit of a 'break' playing some Elf teams. Break meaning I'll get killed less but be more likely to lose.

So, as this team continues to develop, what skills would be best to focus on for playing a bash heavy schedule. Seems like Block, Dodge, Wrestle, Fend, Side Step, Guard, Jump Up are obvious choices.

I look at the team's play style like this: The 2 line frogs with stat boosts are this team's true blitzers. They do that job most of the time, although the AG 4 frog will act as a ball retriever/carrier in a pinch. The catchers handle the ball, get into tight spaces to add assists on defense and bolster screens from the back. The blitzers are a developing entity of mean screen. The Wrestlers are saying to the opponent " I am parked here. You will not move me unless you remove me" The Blockers are saying "I'll stick to you like glue. You are not dodging away. Then I will hit you and break you with Mighty Blow" So the Wrestlers will try to get in the way of the other team's hitters and the blockers will try to get in the way of the other team's ball handler/ speed pieces.

Any thoughts on this strategy, possible different development paths, flaws in the plan, etc?

[Ullis]

Do you think the blitzers are pulling their weight?

At least the Wrestle blitzer is seriously redundant due to enough Wrestle on the linefrogs. And it costs 130 TV! TV management for slann is important as slann like the wizard and babes. I know you don't have the funds to replace it with a lino but that's something I'd consider after next game. Also, you could look at developing a killer blitzer but getting the required spp's on a blitzer might be hard.

How about replacing the Wrestle blitzer with a kroxigor if you get enough money?

[nick_nameless]

Do you think the blitzers are pulling their weight?

At least the Wrestle blitzer is seriously redundant due to enough Wrestle on the linefrogs. And it costs 130 TV! TV management for slann is important as slann like the wizard and babes. I know you don't have the funds to replace it with a lino but that's something I'd consider after next game. Also, you could look at developing a killer blitzer but getting the required spp's on a blitzer might be hard.

How about replacing the Wrestle blitzer with a kroxigor if you get enough money?

The blitzers are fairly new to the team. I played most of my games with only 1 and 4 catchers.

I guess we will see. I don't think 4 catchers are necessary with an ag4 LF. if the Blitzers are not adding to the success I'll probably replace one, but the team speed and mobility is nicely increased with them there because of MA 7 and jump up.

[RogueThirteen]

Wow, that's a lot of SPP for one season! Nice looking team and a good job of spreading the SPPs around.

[Heff]

I would think about not going tackle next. Only two of the teams you have coming up are likely to have much dodge. What about fend (assuming there is much PO or Frenzy).

[nick_nameless]

@RogueThirteen: Thanks! Not all of those games were "in season", but they were all sanctioned games in season or in official "preseason" format.

I would think about not going tackle next. Only two of the teams you have coming up are likely to have much dodge. What about fend (assuming there is much PO or Frenzy).

Good point. I reread my post and that was supposed to read "Fend, Tackle" as my choices. I will need to get at least one tackler on the team as this league is fairly mature (in it's third season....I played Dwarves in season one) and there is a good amount of Dodge running around. I'll need the option to blitz those players with a tackle piece.

In any event, those edits, along with some doubles skill edits (I had too many listed. The ones there now are the ones in serious consideration) are updated in the first post.

[nick_nameless]

3 games in I am 1-1-1.

Tied Orcs
Lost Underworld
Beat Nurgle

I managed to gain an AV bust in the first game and cut the lineman, a niggle in the second game and kept the lineman, and now an AV bust on a catcher (who also happened to catch my MVP and a TD...and gained a skill at 56 SPP) who I will probably keep for now. He's MA8, Block, Dodge, KOR. He can sit back and field the kickoff and advance the ball into play later.

I keep leaning towards survival skills because I just keep losing players. Attrition with this team has been terrible for me. I am averaging having to cut a player just about every 2 games and have barely kept up earnings to be able to keep up with that.

Next up is Norse. In the matches I have played against Norse with my Slann I am 2-1 (one was an unofficial scrimage) and have outscored them 9-3. I am hoping to come out of this game relatively unscathed and with a boat load of SPPs.

[nick_nameless]

So, after some early season woes (and frankly some flat out bad luck), The Michigan J. Frrrogs have bounced back and are 4-1-1.

Currently constituted, the team looks like:
David Brrrandt, Line Frog :: + AG, Block, Strip Ball, Pass Block :: 58 SPPs
Brrrandon Grrraham, Line Frog :: Rookie, Niggle :: 0 SPPs
Dan Dierrrdorrrf, Line Frog :: +STR, Block :: 28 SPPs
Larrry Foote, Line Frog :: Wrestle :: 9 SPPs
Perrry Dorrrestein, Line Frog :: Rookie :: 0 SPPs
David Terrrell, Catcher :: +MV, Block, Dodge, Sidestep, Guard :: 82 SPPs
Desmond Howarrrd, Catcher :: Block, Dodge :: 21 SPPs
Tom Brrrady, Catcher :: Block, Pass, Sure Hands, Kick Off Return :: 57 SPPs
Crrrazy Legs Hirrrsch, Blitzer :: Wrestle, Tackle :: 21 SPPs
Charrrles Woodson, Blitzer :: Block :: 9 SPPs
Marrrlin Jackson, Blitzer :: Block :: 8 SPPs
Prrrescott Burrrgess, Blitzer :: Wrestle :: 11 SPPs

5 TRRs
10 FF
1 Assistant Coach
Apothecary
60K Gold
1930 TV

So overall I think the team is doing really well, but I am struggling with how to manage the TV.
In order of importance, the players on the team that make a difference in individual games are:
1T - David Brrrandt
1T - David Terrrell
2T - Dam Dierrrdorf
2T - Tom Brrrady
3 - Crrrazy Leggs Hirrrsch
4T - Charrrles Woodson
4T - Marrrlin Jackson
5 - Desmond Howarrrd
6 - Larry Foote
7 - Prrrescott Burrrgess
8 - Perrry Dorrrestein
9 - Brrrandon Grrraham.

Note: I thought about cutting Brrrandon Grrraham and replacing him with a new Line Frog, but I wanted to sit on the cash in case I needed it.

So, I am really struggling with where to sacrifice and gain back some TV. Would I be better off keeping my catchers relatively unskilled and cutting them when they get to 31 SPPs? Should I try and run with only three Blitzers to gain some TV back? I am running with only three catchers to save there, and I feel like I miss the team speed when a blitzer is out, but maybe that's a sacrifice I need to make.

I think I am roughly at a TV cap where I am. Players die too frequently on this team and I have never had more than just enough gold to buy a blitzer. I guess I have been winning in the 1800-2000 TV range, but still it feels like giving up those inducements to my opponent is a disadvantage.

Would you cut? If so, Where?

[sunnyside]

Any thoughts on this strategy, possible different development paths, flaws in the plan, etc?

Well, I'm not experience with Slann. But it might seem like your team could have problems against attrition based bash.

The popular sort where they have one or two SPP rich murder machines with MBPO, claw if they can take it, and tackle/frenzy/block/juggernaut as able. You don't have a counter murderer, nor dirty player or a bench allowing you to fowl much.

I'm curious how it works playing against them. I was thinking of making a slann team that wins those matchups by keeping away, maybe having a dirty player+sneaky git catcher to the PO players under pressure (possibly using leap to MB+PO them myself and then foul if neccesary right from the start when I recieve), and on defense at some point jumping players with Guard into a cage and whacking the ball carrier thus giving a decent chance of victory even if I'm taking losses.


But you don't really have any of those tools in play. I'm curious what you're doing and how well it works. Just looking at it your Cockerel seems like an AG challenged elf team, giving it an Amazon like turnover rate if you tried to use elf tactics.

[nick_nameless]

Well, I'm not experience with Slann. But it might seem like your team could have problems against attrition based bash.

The popular sort where they have one or two SPP rich murder machines with MBPO, claw if they can take it, and tackle/frenzy/block/juggernaut as able. You don't have a counter murderer, nor dirty player or a bench allowing you to fowl much.

I'm curious how it works playing against them. I was thinking of making a slann team that wins those matchups by keeping away, maybe having a dirty player+sneaky git catcher to the PO players under pressure (possibly using leap to MB+PO them myself and then foul if neccesary right from the start when I recieve), and on defense at some point jumping players with Guard into a cage and whacking the ball carrier thus giving a decent chance of victory even if I'm taking losses.


But you don't really have any of those tools in play. I'm curious what you're doing and how well it works. Just looking at it your Cockerel seems like an AG challenged elf team, giving it an Amazon like turnover rate if you tried to use elf tactics.

Honestly you are not far off in your assessment that I often feel like an AG challenged Elf team...but my results have been pretty good with my strategy. 4-1-1 this season and 6W 2D 4L last season. 10-3-5 is not too bad over a season and a half.

I mainly work on scoring quickly and then playing a stymie defense. The other team spends a lot of time just trying to keep their hands on the ball. This has worked much better against Bash teams, but I am hoping as I get some more tackle, SF, sidestep on my blitzers that the results against AG teams will improve.

I have not concentrated on making killer pieces because as a whole the Slann are not a great bash team. It's tier 1.5 for a reason. Not great at bash, not great at dash. I think of them as a "Mobile" team as opposed to a "Fast" team. They can reconfigure their defense in a turn with just a little luck. Rarely can the other team keep me from hitting the ball carrier, and with a block strip-ball player and a wrestle-tackle player to choose from I usually have good options when I go make that hit.

Against attrition based bash I can have problems, but then I don't really want to try and go toe to toe with them either. I want them behind in the score and trying desperately to get their hands on the ball. That takes their attention away from bashing and more on keeping me from getting the ball and running up the score.

EDIT: Now that I have a third catcher at blodge I am seriously thinking of giving him DP and sneaky git as his next 2 skills (if he lives)

[dr. evil]

I wouldn't do that with a catcher. If you want a DP then use a linefrog and hope he doesn't get kicked off.

The problem I find with this team is that I lose player faster than my bashy opponents and I don't think have a DP will help change that. Scoring fast and often seems to be the better option as I can get my KO'd players back.

[Hitonagashi]

I wouldn't do that with a catcher. If you want a DP then use a linefrog and hope he doesn't get kicked off.

The problem I find with this team is that I lose player faster than my bashy opponents and I don't think have a DP will help change that. Scoring fast and often seems to be the better option as I can get my KO'd players back.

Everyone knows that if you take up a run up and leap, you are a much more effective Dirty Player when you land 2 footed on them...and a catcher is better at leaping!

[nick_nameless]

I wouldn't do that with a catcher. If you want a DP then use a linefrog and hope he doesn't get kicked off.

The problem I find with this team is that I lose player faster than my bashy opponents and I don't think have a DP will help change that. Scoring fast and often seems to be the better option as I can get my KO'd players back.

There are a few problems with that.

1) my linefrogs, save for my AG4 and S4 frog are pretty much always mucking it up, marking players, busy getting in the way, etc. They don't really have time to foul. This is true on both offense and defense. The other two are my "Blitzers" most of the time, the S4 guy on offense and the AG4 guy on defense. Unless I am blitzing a Sure Hands player, in which case my Wrestle/Tackle blitzer gets the call. I don't really have a LF to spare for this.
2) My catchers are almost never marking people on defense. The exception to this is my guard piece who is regularly jumping onto the fray on order to help me pry the ball loose. The other catchers on the field are usually being put in a position to back up the first layer of the screen my blitzers are setting or waiting to jump in and try and grab a ball that just got knocked loose.
3) If a linefrog gets a doubles I am not likely to give him sneaky git even if he has DP.
4) The catchers can get to the guy that needs to be kicked while he is down. Pretty much every time.

The Catchers are brilliant players out of the box. Sure some skills make them better, but in terms of needing skills to do their job they are the one player on the team that can do what they need the way they are born. After block and dodge the only other "Must have" skill is sidestep and guard or HMP on doubles. Fend is noce to deal with POMB people, but I think that the versatility of having a player with DP/SG would change the way my opponent does things. The fast way to get that is with a catcher.

[nick_nameless]

As a general update I improved to 5-1-1 last night with a 5-1 win over a Chaos Pact team that came into the game at 5-1-0. it was a crazy game in the pouring rain which had me failing a number of key 2+ rolls to turn over, but also had him needing to make many 3+ and 4+ rolls to be able to move the ball, and in the end dice attrition gave me more opportunities to score. The ability to grab the ball out of his drive and score with it in the same turn really made the big score discrepancy

[dr. evil]

I wouldn't do that with a catcher. If you want a DP then use a linefrog and hope he doesn't get kicked off.

The problem I find with this team is that I lose player faster than my bashy opponents and I don't think have a DP will help change that. Scoring fast and often seems to be the better option as I can get my KO'd players back.

There are a few problems with that.

1) my linefrogs, save for my AG4 and S4 frog are pretty much always mucking it up, marking players, busy getting in the way, etc. They don't really have time to foul. This is true on both offense and defense. The other two are my "Blitzers" most of the time, the S4 guy on offense and the AG4 guy on defense. Unless I am blitzing a Sure Hands player, in which case my Wrestle/Tackle blitzer gets the call. I don't really have a LF to spare for this.
2) My catchers are almost never marking people on defense. The exception to this is my guard piece who is regularly jumping onto the fray on order to help me pry the ball loose. The other catchers on the field are usually being put in a position to back up the first layer of the screen my blitzers are setting or waiting to jump in and try and grab a ball that just got knocked loose.
3) If a linefrog gets a doubles I am not likely to give him sneaky git even if he has DP.
4) The catchers can get to the guy that needs to be kicked while he is down. Pretty much every time.

The Catchers are brilliant players out of the box. Sure some skills make them better, but in terms of needing skills to do their job they are the one player on the team that can do what they need the way they are born. After block and dodge the only other "Must have" skill is sidestep and guard or HMP on doubles. Fend is noce to deal with POMB people, but I think that the versatility of having a player with DP/SG would change the way my opponent does things. The fast way to get that is with a catcher.

I think you've missed my point. It's not that I think DP is better on linefrog it that I don't feel this team has room for the skill. This team is about scoring and scoring often not fouling IMO. But if you do put DP on a catcher I'd like to know how it works out for you.