A few thoughts on Khemri

[Smeborg]

Curse you thread. Got a double 6 on TG, took block. Then of course have got a normal double

I well know the consensus is to take Block on a 6,6. Not that I have yet had the choice, but I would be inclined to take the +1ST. Reason: because overwhelming ST is the main advantage of Khemri, it's what opponents can't handle. +1ST works a treat on other players, so why not extend the policy to the TGs? 3-die blocks will be common at ST6.

[mattgslater]

More productively, have you considered Frenzy? One Guard player, and you can start pushing TGs into extra blocks or into blitzes. If you have another one, or an MA7 BR or TR, in addition to your retriever, you can even attempt 1TTD (unlikely though it be, your odds are helped by your capacity to get nothing but 3d blocks).

[swilhelm73]

ST3 against ST6 is the same as ST5.

Against a player without block that gives you a 9/36 chance of defender down, 16/36 push, 11/36 of attacker down. So, blocking him, without an RR, is slightly better then an ag3 dodge.

Block + ST5 changes that calculus quite a bit though, now you have a 20/36 chance of attacker down or stay in contact (double down).

[Hitonagashi]

More productively, have you considered Frenzy? One Guard player, and you can start pushing TGs into extra blocks or into blitzes. If you have another one, or an MA7 BR or TR, in addition to your retriever, you can even attempt 1TTD (unlikely though it be, your odds are helped by your capacity to get nothing but 3d blocks).

I used Block/Frenzy and it was awesome. I've always rated block/frenzy/mb. That said, I've seen a really good few mummies with Block/Dodge/Mb/Break Tackle too, with the added reliability.

[Smeborg]

I'm curious that nobody appears to take Tackle as second double on a TG, given that everybody (?) appears to say that fast/agility teams are the most difficult opponents.

All the best.

[Chris]

Well, I did, on the basis he will get a third double...

[crimsonsun]

I just had to take block on a 6+6 for a Tomb Guardian it killed me to do it, but block makes him a good player, +str and he's still not reliable. Frenzy is awesome on TG's as its great for busting holes in people defence, and the ability to create new blocks should never be over looked either.

For the 1TTD Frenzy and grab make it pretty feasible to gain the required pushes, the main issue that makes them nigh on impossible on a Khemri team is feeding that player the ball its just not something we have any reliable way of doing.

I have a block, dodge, tackle, mighty blow, grab TG in my match maker squad, it can be really handy, dodge i am not sure I would take again though as people always target him with tackle. As good as tackle is on him, I would change it to frenzy in a heart beat now i have had experience with it, I have frenzy on a legendary blitz-ra in that team which I think was a bad choice as he is only Str3 (dauntless) and this means it can be too risky to use him on some blocks, and is therefore often as much as a headache as a gain. I think frenzy is far better on str 4+ players overall. Grab is great on TG's though and makes a good choice for SF TG's. I think block, frenzy, Mighty Blow, Juggernaut, fend would have been a far better set of skills one which I will try out if i am ever fortunate enough to roll 3 doubles on a Tomb Guardian again.

Crimsonsun

[Smeborg]

crimsonsun - I think Dodge on a TG is hard to give unless you have B-Tackle already. I would have given your 3-doubles TG B-Tackle instead of Grab at 5th skill, probably.

All the best.

[crimsonsun]

crimsonsun - I think Dodge on a TG is hard to give unless you have B-Tackle already. I would have given your 3-doubles TG B-Tackle instead of Grab at 5th skill, probably.

All the best.

Break Tackle was my other big choice, but at the time I had two break tackle TG's already which I well is enough, as well as that is lacks guard making it not as effective, while grab is wonderful for positioning opposing players to be obliterated. I chose dodge so he would get knocked down less, but the difference has been pretty minor, thus i feel it was a less than optimum option for that team, but you only learn though trial and error.

thanks Crimsonsun

[Smeborg]

crimsonsun - I agree that you find out these things only by trial and error. Many is the time I have taken what I thought was the perfect skill on a player, only to be disappointed in practice, and many is the time I have tentatively trialled a new skill or stat increase, half expecting it to be crap, but finding that it worked a treat at the table. That's why I love the interplay between theorybowl and real BB. I can't think of any other game like it.

How many times do TGs get blocked in a game in practice? Not often, I suspect. Thus their susceptibility to ClawPoMbers and their ilk is very real, but also perhaps exaggerated in the minds of Khemri coaches.

All the best.

[crimsonsun]

I think that very much depends on the TV, higher the more likely, pretty much every turn at higher tvs, I totally agree cwpomb is not that bad for tomb guardians, mainly because most clwpomb players cannot match them for strengh, and this is even more effiiecient while working With there guarding support.

So I have found that at high team rating, u will get at least one or two guardians floored each turn. So keeping them up is very worth while, but dodge just does not do that much at the level in which they are being blocked a lot more as there players mostly have tackle.

Tackle on the guaridin is semi useful, Ag 3 dodge players think twice before making dodges, for blocking he become the stuntie killer, also I tend to blitz with the blitz ra's over guardians, due to the excess extra moverment is massive. A block, frenzy, mb, guardian would achieve/provide far more for the team than tackle does I think mainly because it would be great if all the mummies had it, along with some skeletons as i would gain both the skills uses from my players, while frenzy is a good skill u don't want everywhere.

I have 7 khemri teams that I still use at the moment though so at least I have plenty of opportunity to try out more interesting /optimal combonations, and to test out ide
as with various different statistic increases within the squad with the new options they bring.
Thanks crimsonsun

[Smeborg]

First of all, many thanks to crimsonsun and others for spitting out their experiences with Khemri on this thread. Very valuable to me as a learner with the team.

Secondly, I think that many differences of views on Khemri development can be put down to differences in playing environment, specifically:

- Length of league (e.g. short or defined length vs. perpetual);
- Mix of races (e.g. truly mixed vs. ClawPoMb-heavy);
- House rules (TVMM is one such).

Thirdly, I find nearly every idea put forward on this thread to be eminently understandable.

Lastly, there are some underlying ideas of development and practical play which I have tested in part, and hope to test at greater length next season. Some may reflect differences in my typical playing environment, but I think mostly they are genuine differences of thinking. I will attempt to summarise these below:

P-ON VS. GUARD ON THE BLITZ-RAS: Neither wrong, I suggest, but I prefer Guard. The reason is that in tight games (which for Khemri is a high proportion), this team can ill afford to put its own players on the deck (compared to other teams).

KICK-OFF RETURN ON THE THRO-RAS: I have (to my surprise) not felt the impact of not taking this skill (when this happened due to doubles and stat increases). I suggest the skill is not as useful as on other teams (because other teams are less likely to spill the ball when picking it up, thus can use KoR to move the ball, whereas Khemri have to ensure safety of the ball where it is before they pick it up). Thus I will further test the validity of this idea (which suggests that other skills are better).

LEADER ON THE THRO-RAS: I share crimsonsun's distaste for this, believing that it is a waste compared to other skills (although I know Leader is a popular choice).

WRESTLE VS. BLOCK ON THE SKELLIES: I understand the usefulness and validity of Wrestle+Fend, especially in certain environments, but prefer Block. The reason is the pressing need for this team (in tight games) to keep players standing. When in trouble, perhaps a Skellie has to take a critical block or blitz. When isolated (which is common), a Skellie may take the last action of the turn (a 1-die block), and it is important for him to either remain standing (for screening/escorting purposes) or to increase his chances of inflicting damage (Block is better than Wrestle for both).

DIRTY PLAYER: I foul plenty with Khemri, but I prefer to develop 3 Block Skellies before worrying about D-Player. The reason, once again, is that I observe that in (the many) tight games, Khemri do not often get chances to make meaningful fouls until late in the drive, often after the drive has been decided. Thus I find Block more influential for determining the course of the drive (and game).

DOUBLES STRATEGY: I suggest there is plenty of room for interesting ideas here. My current thinking is: TGs go Block+Tackle. B-Ras ignore doubles (normal skills being better). T-Ras take either Dodge+S-Step or S-Feet+Sprint (I like both, but incline to the latter). Skellies take M-Blow (this is possible because in my scheme the B-Ras take Guard). I add the caveat that doubles choices are heavily influenced by what has happened to the rest of the team, including other doubles and stat increases. And by environment, of course.

STAT INCREASES: I like +AV on the TGs (appears to work well in practice). I would also take it on the Skellies. For the T-Ras, +MA is golden. For the B-Ras I expect to ignore 10s altogether (normal skills being better).

GENERAL COMMENT ON THE NUMBERS GAME: Khemri are a fun team to play because they try to win on numbers, despite being imperfectly equipped for the task. My coaching experience with them suggests that you have to find the right balance (for your environment, of course) between inflicting damage and staying upright and on the pitch. Several of the above ideas are influenced by this thinking.

Thank you for your patience and understanding, and all the best!

[Juriel]

The thing with Thro-Ras is that without rolling something special, your skill choices are pretty slim after you have Block and Tackle on them. When your choice then is between Fend, Leader or Kick-Off Return, it's not exactly like any one of those is heads and shoulders above the others.

[swilhelm73]

The thing with Thro-Ras is that without rolling something special, your skill choices are pretty slim after you have Block and Tackle on them. When your choice then is between Fend, Leader or Kick-Off Return, it's not exactly like any one of those is heads and shoulders above the others.

Considering ag2/mv6 I would say KOR is pretty valuable. A fair amount of the time you can get a free catch attempt, and even if you blow it then have the ball marked.

[spubbbba]

The thing with Thro-Ras is that without rolling something special, your skill choices are pretty slim after you have Block and Tackle on them. When your choice then is between Fend, Leader or Kick-Off Return, it's not exactly like any one of those is heads and shoulders above the others.

Considering ag2/mv6 I would say KOR is pretty valuable. A fair amount of the time you can get a free catch attempt, and even if you blow it then have the ball marked.

Yeah I’d say that Thro-ras are one of the few players that would actually benefit from KoR. With their lack of speed and agility they need all the extra MA they can get and as you said a free shot at catching the ball if you can get under it is certainly worth it.