Discuss Fantasy football-style board games - GW's Blood Bowl, Impact!'s Elfball, Privateer Press' Grind, Heresy's Deathball, etc. THIS IS NOT AN NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL SITE!
As expected, they have trouble against bashy teams and agile teams. Shocker.
Started with Bloodthirster, my first opponent was Skaven, so that was 180k of uselessness.
Spent all my rerolls on four cases of double-skulls, so was playing naked almost the whole time. Still managed to get a skull-skull-bothdown with a 3d block with the Thirster.
Starting turns with Horns+Juggs blitzes, and not being able to take LOS blocks with any kind of safety, feels weird as hell.
Yes, my luck was real special. Not exactly a representative match.
Juriel wrote:As expected, they have trouble against bashy teams and agile teams. Shocker.
Hi Juriel, I think the Khorne team are in good company in that regard. My only competitive experience so far against AG is a hard-fought draw against HEs, and against bash a narrow loss to Khemri when a draw might have been a "fair" result. Both opponents were good coaches. Nothing yet to indicate great imbalance either way.
You may notice that I have advocated against starting with the Bloodthirster, and recommend starting with 3 RR followed by Leader ASAP. i'm happy with that so far, although of course I have not tried playing with the Bloodthirster, I'll leave that to others like yourself for now.
Thanks for pointing out the safe blood letter might be an essential choice
Righty so far I have trod a different path. The big guy is soooooo expensive but he comes with a glut of skills. I'm tempted to play him to around 1800 and if he's still lacking a defensive block skill he's sacked. I have used him as a hammer and anvil. I neither trust him, but without rerolls you would be mad to ignore the 3d claw player
I am aiming to surf as this seams a natural dynamic with so much frenzy. Each turn I am basing my turn on possibly 1d pushes that result in a man out. So far playing a medium player and a very great one it appears impossible to go head to head on the sides. I made a frenzy cage once. I can't recommend that again! Khorne teams are meant to play down the channels. The big boy has helped ensure I WILL have an option so initially I like the BT.
i like the basic fighters also. For 60k they seam a bargain. So far my glass canon team plays a lot like an alpha strike dark eldar. They really need a man advantage early and can't fight like a traditional team at all. I'm considering mass wrestle as the team just ends out of shape regardless out how I expect the turn will play. So I'm going for plan a, surf or set one up for next turn almost always. It's dumb to forget the ball but 11 on 11 scrum is just not something you want. Khorne has the magic number 8. I might patient the idea that this team ideally completes with 8 on the pitch. The extra space then is in your favour and will help protect against 2d block scrums.
The first was against another Khorne team, both of us a vanilla TV 1000. We had identical rosters, that is:
2 Heralds
4 Bloodletters
6 Pit Fighters
2 RRs
Ive never used jugganaught before, but I found in this match it was invaluable. I managed to lure my opponent to the sides and mass surf his herald and most of his bloodletters. After that, my team simply bullied their way through to win. I managed to get quite a few spps across my team from CAS and a couple of sneaky passes.
My second game was against a Chaos Dwarf team. This did not go well at all. Although by turn 4 I had surfed both Bull Centaurs (from 4 squares in), I found the lack of block painful. Once the Bull Centaurs had been surfed I felt certain I was going to win. However, my losses quickly started to mount as the daemons had no staying power. Once I was outnumbered, my team was quickly outgunned. Despite some lucky dodges and a desperate long pass to an unmarked Bloodletter in the backfield, I lost 3-0 with 5 CAS and a DEAD herald!!
So, in conclusion:
Khorne struggles against bash opponents, particularly those who start with block. I was also struck with how slow the team was. I'm used to using Vampires, so I thought MV 6 would be fine, however having no particularly agile players can really leave you tied up. You need to use frenzy to get your players where they need to be.
Also MV6 means you almost HAVE to pass the ball. It now becomes clear why the Pit Fighters have Pass access.
The lack of str was painful and has made me consider starting with the Bloodthirster, simply so I have a chance in the bash wars.
Bloodletters should be ST4. There's nothing fluffy about a Bloodletter that says they have to be mobile or have A access. BOB with 5429 Horns, Juggernaut, Thick Skull GS @ 120k would make a lot of sense. I'd rather have 0-2 of those guys (and 9 mandatory Frenzy) than 0-4 of the Bloodletters they got. That and Bloodthirsters should either get another decent fluffy B skill or (better) should be cheaper just by dint of being so pricey and so fluffy. 150k is too cheap, but 160k would be a good way to go.
Reason:''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
mattgslater wrote:Put another way, this is a terrible roster.
Bloodletters should be ST4. There's nothing fluffy about a Bloodletter that says they have to be mobile or have A access. BOB with 5429 Horns, Juggernaut, Thick Skull GS @ 120k would make a lot of sense. I'd rather have 0-2 of those guys (and 9 mandatory Frenzy) than 0-4 of the Bloodletters they got. That and Bloodthirsters should either get another decent fluffy B skill or (better) should be cheaper just by dint of being so pricey and so fluffy. 150k is too cheap, but 160k would be a good way to go.
AV 9.... BL are naked.....where in the Chaos Realms does this make sense?!?
And they would be maybe the second or 3rd best player in the game.
With players like that we would have a tier 1.
160 for the BT is ridiculous. It takes the best of 2-3 big guys and puts it togheter.
It is the best hitting BG. 180 is good.
This looks like a wishlist for the Grey Knights of BB.
Thank Nuffle Galak saved us.
mattgslater wrote:There's nothing fluffy about a Bloodletter that says they have to be mobile or have A access.
This is a section of fluff from the Daemons of Chaos army book:
"Left to their own devices, Bloodletters sprint and bound from one enemy to the next, hacking the foe apart with their murderous Hellblades before springing away in search of new lifebood to spill."
That's no BOB.
Moronik wrote:I was also struck with how slow the team was. I'm used to using Vampires, so I thought MV 6 would be fine, however having no particularly agile players can really leave you tied up. You need to use frenzy to get your players where they need to be.
Also MV6 means you almost HAVE to pass the ball. It now becomes clear why the Pit Fighters have Pass access.
I haven't found the team slow, but agree that they get tied up easily. I am looking forward to Dodge.
I agree that you have to pass the ball. Now that I have lost my MA7 Bloodletter, I expect to build a Pit Fighter into a regular Thrower.
mattgslater wrote:Put another way, this is a terrible roster.
That is not my experience so far. I would describe them as a challenging team, but not necessarily as an under-performing one. You need to get the starting roster right, you have to learn a style of play which is quite different to all existing teams, and I suspect you also need a very accurate development plan. This makes the team unforgiving if you get any of these things wrong, but I suggest the team will perform well if you get them right. I will go further and say that I think the team is capable of winning leagues and tournaments in the hands of a good coach. Probably not one of the best teams, but somewhere in "tier 1".
The team reminds me of Slann in their general approach to risk management and game play. They love RRs, and need to take 3+ risks much of the time. On offense, they can't hold the ball, thus they try to score quickly. On defense they are aggressive and dynamic, they seek to attack or expose the ball quickly and directly, they don't hang about. Sometimes they will have a quiet "recovery" turn. All good stuff for an experienced and curious coach, perhaps not so good for some newbies or for experienced coaches who want the team to be something that it is not.
I think Matt was looking at it from a fluff perspective, in which I agree with him.
I disagree with most of the rest of his post.
@Dode - I'd stop bolding "sprinting".in that passage. Dwarfs and Saurus can "sprint", and they're hardly agile.
Reason:''
Currently an ex-Blood Bowl coach, most likely to be found dying to Armoured Skeletons in the frozen ruins of Felstad, or bleeding into the arena sands of Rome or burning rubber for Mars' entertainment.
I think fluff is critical to design, that you can't have a good roster if it doesn't fit its own fluff.
I forgot to trade AV9 down to AV7/Regen and cost for AV8, yes. Ulf template would be better, maybe with BT in lieu of Juggernaut, and maybe even AS/GP access to encourage Juggernaut.
I think the concept is fun. If they were Savage Orcs instead or something, that would be cool. But Khorne wants to be high-ST and bashy, with loads of MB, and this team can't be that. Blood for the Blood God!
Reason:''
What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
Okay, now I really want to try them. Hito`s Law of Forum Bloodbowl...anyone who says you have to pass is talking rubbish. I will concede however that this is a new team...
mattgslater wrote:I think fluff is critical to design, that you can't have a good roster if it doesn't fit its own fluff.
...snip...
But Khorne wants to be high-ST and bashy, with loads of MB, and this team can't be that. Blood for the Blood God!
And if we'd come up with a high-ST cpomb team, how much good would that have done for the game? One of the biggest complaints is the lack of variation in the game right now, so more of the same would hardly have helped.
I disagree, btw - what Khorne wants is Frenzy, and lots of it.
mattgslater wrote:There's nothing fluffy about a Bloodletter that says they have to be mobile or have A access.
This is a section of fluff from the Daemons of Chaos army book:
"Left to their own devices, Bloodletters sprint and bound from one enemy to the next, hacking the foe apart with their murderous Hellblades before springing away in search of new lifebood to spill."
That's no BOB.
You know every time you quote that to justify agility access I may have to post this from the same description.
"Rippling muscles lie barely concealed beneath the Bloodletter's scaly red hide, knotted sinews that give the Daemon strength sufficient for its jet black claws to pierce the most unyielding of armours."
