The Great Roster Cull

For Fantasy Football related chat that doesn't come under any of other forum categories.

Moderator: TFF Mods

Post Reply
User avatar
Shteve0
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2479
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:15 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

The Great Roster Cull

Post by Shteve0 »

Inspired by Colin's erudite missive over here:

viewtopic.php?p=656699#p656699

So, if you were handed roster rewrite rights; if we throw away the Warhammer background lead and keep the bloodbowl specific fluff only; and if each team has to justify its position as an individual roster pick; what goes, what stays, and what gets a rewrite?

Edit: Some ground rules!

1) Post any old rubbish, it's all purely personal and it's probably never going to happen :)
2) If you're thinking things through, You're Doing It Wrong
3) Please, no telling anyone their ideas are "bad" or "stupid". They know that, that's why they're posting them on an internet forum instead of rolling around in piles of money. Besides, you're wasting your life posting here too, so they're hardly likely to take your assessment as gospel, are they? Just say you don't agree, and try to come up with an equally bad idea of your own instead :)

Reason: ''
League and tournament hosting, blogging and individual forums - all totally free. For the most immersive tabletop sports community experience around, check out theendzone.co
SillySod
Eternal Rookie
Eternal Rookie
Posts: 1952
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:09 am
Location: Winchester

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by SillySod »

A "rewrite"? Basically all of them.

Maybe keep lizardmen in the current form. Maybe.

Reason: ''
Victim of the Colonel's car boot smash. First person to use Glynn's bath.
Update: the Hartlepool family Glynn now has a virgin bath.

Barney is a clever dog.
User avatar
Shteve0
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2479
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:15 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by Shteve0 »

Lol, fair enough. I'm not sure I'd go that far.

Personal bugbears: too many Chaos teams, too many elf teams; dwarves should be ST3, AG2 stunties (not kidding); Khemri are inconsistent; humans are too weak; amazons are fun to play but boring in design, and crap at high TV;

In as they are: Necromantic (as "Undead"); Skaven; Goblins; Lizardmen; Slann; Chaos Pact (as "Chaos"); Nurgle (as "Rotters"); Norse; Vampire

Out: Chaos (reapply with Khorne); Undead; Ogres (reapply with Halflings); Underworld (reapply with Chaos Dwarf); High Elf; Wood Elf

In with tweaks/a rewrite:

Amazon - rewritten as fast, passing humans
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1/amazonw.png

Human - true all rounders, tweaked with better catchers
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5769/humane.png

Elf - the passingest team in the land
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5524/elfv.png

Dark Elf - evil AG 4
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7572/delf.png

Khemri
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6860/khemri.png

Dwarf - Stunty, because they are. Retain the ST game, but are now better cage breakers and VERY vulnerable to claw/MB. Need a deeper bench but are cheaper
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8736/dwarfq.png

Orc - roster trimmed down to size
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8597/orcba.png


In brand new:

Apes :D
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/224/apey.png

Reason: ''
League and tournament hosting, blogging and individual forums - all totally free. For the most immersive tabletop sports community experience around, check out theendzone.co
Ithilkir
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2546
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:04 pm
Location: Fife, Scotland
Contact:

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by Ithilkir »

Personally with no justification given...

In:
Human, Orc, Skaven, Dark Elf, Pro Elf, Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Undead, Underworld, Chaos Pact, Slaan, Norse, Ogre, Goblin, Halfling, Lizardmen

Out:
High Elf, Wood Elf, Khemri, Amazon, Chaos, Nurgle, Vampire, Necromantic

Never let in:
Khorne

I'd replace the Undead with Necromantic and pre-LRB5 massacre Khemri if given the chance to resurect a roster that got dumped only to be replaced with a team that looks like someone chewed up a Tomb Kings book and shat it out (seriously it should just have been 0-2 mummies, 0-4 blitzers and change the throwers to runners at move 7, fend, -pass and gen skills only)

Then I'd go and rename the positionals to actual positions not some shitty Warhammer unit name.

Reason: ''
Cheers,
Stephen :: LRB 5.0 Background Editor
Blood Bowl 2005 & 2006 :: Winner of Most Casualties
The Lore of Nuffle :: The webs biggest BB flavour archive!
Chris
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 1:18 pm
Location: London, England

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by Chris »

I would be looking at it from a boxed game point of view. So for me 3 sets of teams the 'core', the 'expansion' and then the 'extras'.

What goes in where though would be dictated by economics :) Otherwise we end up with all sorts of silly ideas like making all the 2nd ed teams the base for the core etc! :)

Left to my own devices I would add teams. Personally I like a lot of teams. My revised list would be something like

Human (fix - should be one of best teams in BB - many fixes are out there, I would try the cost one personally)
Amazon (making passing/catching human team)
Norse
Bretonian Add. 4 Nobles with animosity (6/3/3/9 interesting skills GS/AP), 4 retainers (6/3/3/8 GSP/A), 0-16 peasants (6/3/3/7 S/AGP)

Chaos Rename Khorne
Khorne - Not sure what to do, seems a shame to scrap, probably make into a beastman team with some changes?
Chaos Pact
Nurgle
Add Tzeentch and Slanesh to round them off
Chaos Dwarf
Dwarf (maybe fiddle with a bit, say move tackle to blitzers or one of the other proposed changes)
Pro Elf
Dark Elf
High Elf
Wood Elf
Lizardmen
Necromantic
Undead
Khemri (Fix, start with thick skull on all skellies not sure what to do with mummies, maybe just give them G access and leave them with decay - though I am amused by the all nerves of steel option! Would see it as in addition to thick skull)
Vampire
Goblin
Halfling
Ogre
Orc
Skaven
Slann
Underworld

Add 2nd ed teams with their model ranges being the base for their positions say they are from the Albion leagues or some such due to the kickers. Would consist of Humans, Orcs, Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Chaos dwarfs (somehow, I have some old bull centaurs I have with my 2nd ed guys), Goblins, Skaven, Chaos perhaps then again they are pretty much the pact, maybe a Snotling team.

Add impact animal supplement :) Apes, Crocs, Wildibeasties etc


Somewhat more far reaching I would love to see the balance between linemen and positionals shift. In essence something along the lines of linemen -10k, positions +10k. Ok, not like that with all the teams, but in essence linemen become a better choice and positions don't get such a big discount on starting stats and skills. So more of an opportunity to grow linemen.

Reason: ''
User avatar
juck101
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
Posts: 1578
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:52 pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by juck101 »

men - mild improvement
khemri - mild improvement
pro elf - tweak if can. Maybe ma8 catch dodge catchers with st2 for 70k or something.

Reason: ''
...the pope said to his aid...
User avatar
Digger Goreman
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5000
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:30 am
Location: Atlanta, GA., USA: Recruiting the Walking Dead for the Blood Bowl Zombie Nation
Contact:

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by Digger Goreman »

Chris wrote:Bretonian
CHEEZY RICE ON AN ELFIN POGO STICK, Shteve0, you had to open the door for someone to bring that moldering rot of putrid bullspit back into the light of day again.... Good intentions, and I agree with the feeling... but... :roll: I thought they were gone for good! (Nothing personal, Chris, I don't know you... but I do know how much bandwidth that stillborn name has burned up in cyberspace.... Every time I hear that name my brain freezes up and I wind up channeling Daffy Duck in rant mode!)

Shteve0, I'm with you on winnowing the teams, stuffin the fluff, and balancing the rosters.... N.B., it's been mentioned a time or few and you're running uphill in a baby banana grove on this one.... :orc: I've already seen it on another thread: the strawmen of "chess-like" and "well I guess we should just play teams of all 6-3-3-8's".... Yeah, those folk abound and you won't get anything vaguely constructive.... However, why the elf not?

Let's start with the big hoodoos:

Write off every timmy-power-gamer elf team.... Then, if we must have ONE elf team, start them with Ag3 (fluff be bleeped!), none of this dark stupidity stuff, and dress them out for Ag Skill acquisition (perhaps).... As all elf teams stand now, they are the BORING-EST waste of a blood bowl game, waiting for two ones to be rolled... sheesh.... :-? And NO TREES!

Ditto with dwarves being written off.... No dorf should trot over Ma4 and linemen get general skills only, no starting block or tackle, needless to say "runners" are one of the most bone-headed concessions to an already power junkie's dreams.... Centaurs and mutations?! Ludicrous....

Totally whacked and needing to go into the Toilet Bowl with elves and dwarves: Lizardmen (Really... St4 with Av9 and Ma6?! mated with Ma8 stunties?!! This was considered intelligent design?!!!); Khemri (thanks for more total King's Privilege crap, JJ); Amazon (spam dodge... cheese, spam anything is just lazy design), Norse, Slann, and current Khorne are all in the same spam slop pail; Nurgle (just for being superfluous to Chaos, though they do have a certain "flavor" to them....)

Needing adjustments: Undead, take away two ghouls... though, yes, I would elim the team for being too mini-maxed; Orcs, take away gobbos, two blitzers, two black orcs, and troll (they would still be pretty good)... the grape-vine has it that JJ orgasms green phlegm over Orcs and that's why they were/are so... "optimal".... Raise the Orc blitzers to 90k....; Skaven, (my inclination is to scrap), reduce gutter runners to two, Ag to 3, and reduce their Ma to 8....; Necros, wights at 80k (or keep at 90k if orcs adjusted), golems at 100k, access to skeletons (especially if deep six-ing Undead), scrap "raising the dead" and put Igor on roster, regen on ghouls; Chaos, change the name to Khorne (hell, I don't care, but "demons" playing sports?! Riiiiiiiight....; Chaos Pact, animosity on marauders; Goblins, buff till able to run with the pack! Maybe allow keeping secret weapons on field... I don't know, but why not "stuff the fluff" and make the team viable?; Halflings (well, I'd throw them out for just being ridiculous but), buff them till viable... perhaps there is merit in mating them with Ogres and eliminating the silly-arsed snotlings; Humans, drop two each of catchers and blitzers, catchers Ma7 & St3, blitzers Ma6, revisit for possible buffs if field not leveled enough; Vampires(?), maybe raise armor (and costs?) for both types....

Disclaimer revisited: Ain't none of this going to happen... ever... so get yer panties out from yer cracks and chill out.... If you do want to say something intelligent by way of constructive criticism... sure, we can talk... but if you only want to hear yerself talkin an anti-position... there are plenty of walls and mirrors in the world.... :P

:orc: Happy-happy... joy-joy.... :orc:

Reason: ''
LRB6/Icepelt Edition: Ah!, when Blood Bowl made sense....
"1 in 36, my Nuffled arse!"
User avatar
bound for glory
Legend
Legend
Posts: 4055
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:43 pm
Location: running amok, against the reality of defeat

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by bound for glory »

human catchers only st2 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
i would double the stats and use 12 sided dice. i think i figured that would work once...

Reason: ''
Rick Sanchez lives!
Smeborg
Legend
Legend
Posts: 3544
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:02 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by Smeborg »

lol, at last I've found the nice padded room of the forum.

Reason: ''
Smeborg the Fleshless
User avatar
Darkson
Da Spammer
Posts: 24047
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:04 pm
Location: The frozen ruins of Felstad
Contact:

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by Darkson »

Removed: none

Rewritten: see my LRBARBBL (or is it ARBBLRB?) thread.

Never in: Quorn roster, Bretonnians


I'd like to see the fours powers have their own teams, but to play against themselves.

Reason: ''
Currently an ex-Blood Bowl coach, most likely to be found dying to Armoured Skeletons in the frozen ruins of Felstad, or bleeding into the arena sands of Rome or burning rubber for Mars' entertainment.
MKL
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by MKL »

Shteve0 wrote: (...)
In brand new:

Apes :D
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/224/apey.png
Finally I got a look on this team!
Where did it originate from?

Reason: ''
User avatar
Shteve0
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2479
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:15 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

The Great Roster Cull

Post by Shteve0 »

Really? Well, that roster comes from me, as it happens. If you have itunes you can download the latest Three Die Block podcast (for free!) to hear some discussion around it, with Chance (who launched the figure kickstarter), his co host Drew and the team's playtester Jason, the comissioner of the NZCL.

If you haven't seen the minis yet, I'd recommend checking out the Apes team 1 over at http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.p ... id=SG_ATM1.

Reason: ''
League and tournament hosting, blogging and individual forums - all totally free. For the most immersive tabletop sports community experience around, check out theendzone.co
User avatar
inkpwn
Raspberry Mage
Posts: 3534
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:26 am
Location: Bristol

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by inkpwn »

Shteve0 wrote: So, if you were handed roster rewrite rights; if we throw away the Warhammer background...
Get rid of:
Wood elfs, High elfs and Undead, change 'Tomb Guardians' to mummys in name only.
Keep the rest, change the names to a less warhammer-ish theme, Nurgle to Oceania, more Cthulhu, squids and barnacles, less rot. Khemri to Egyptus, Skaven to Verymin or something e.t.c
Add the Apes roster, 'Kongs' and remove loner from the human team ogre and give the catchers AV8.

Reason: ''
MKL
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by MKL »

Shteve0 wrote:Lol, really? Well, that roster comes from me, as it happens. If you have itunes you can download the latest Three Die Block podcast (for free!) to hear some discussion around it, with Chance (who launched the figure kickstarter), his co host Drew and the team's playtester Jason, the comissioner of the NZCL.

If you haven't seen the minis yet, I'd recommend checking out the Apes team 1 over at http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.p ... id=SG_ATM1.
Not native speaker, the podcast is beyond my understanding :(

The team is very interesting, I'll propose it to my leaguemates :D
(wild animal on the blockers was unexpected)

Reason: ''
User avatar
Shteve0
Legend
Legend
Posts: 2479
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:15 am
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: The Great Roster Cull

Post by Shteve0 »

Awesome! PM sent :)

Back on topic, very much for dragging back elves to low AV and average speed, saying a firm "no" to Brettonians and Demons, bring up Humans to ST3 catchers and top tier, and bringing Khemri up to a consistent design standard ("spamming", if you will).

On that note, I don't agree that spamming is bad design. Slann stick out to me as great design, for example. The relationship between 5339 Orcs, 6338 Humans and 7337 Skaven all working at the 50k price point, too.

Darkson, please clarify the last bit about "I'd like to see the fours powers have their own teams, but to play against themselves"...?

Reason: ''
League and tournament hosting, blogging and individual forums - all totally free. For the most immersive tabletop sports community experience around, check out theendzone.co
Post Reply