The new Elf team

[martynq]

Erm, I guess I don't play either properly. I lose with dark elves a bit more often than half time time, and with high elves perhaps a little less.

plus if you're playing a run-style game speed isn't really that important.

Remember that I did say that I probably don't play either team "properly". I'm just not very good.

as for shadowers, your league must use them a lot more than ours.

Nah... just me. It seems really cool, but then your opponent sees your chap in a TZ, smacks him, and the guy gets injured.

the other thing is you're talking about your thrower not being able to throw because nobody is open...well if you play the running style they're always open, because you throw it to them the same turn you pick it up.

See above comment about being cr@p.

Martyn

[wesleytj]

well instead of just saying "i suck" all the time maybe you should listen to the advice i'm trying to give you...try different playstyles.

the point i'm getting at is that people can win with dark elves...they may not be a team YOU are particularly suited to playing, but they are a good team and can be very successful. maybe you're a better orc coach or something.

[wesleytj]

the best way to use shadowing is on a guy with a lot of other skills, particularly block, dodge, tackle, and sidestep/stand firm.

that way when they hit you to get you away as you pointed out, chances are it won't affect you. basically it's only a really good skill for maxxed out elven blitzer types (witch elves, dragons, wardancers, d.e. blitzers) it won't generally work for anybody else.

[martynq]

well instead of just saying "i suck" all the time maybe you should listen to the advice i'm trying to give you...try different playstyles.

Sorry if it is getting annoying, but I have just come to the conclusion that I'm a bit crap.

I originally tried a long-ball style with my dark elves... spreading out lots of potential receivers and intending to pass to one and score next turn. When this didn't work, I tried to run the ball a bit more by creating a loose cage type structure which I kept dodging forward. Even while keeping a couple of guys who I could pass to, this still didn't really work.

the point i'm getting at is that people can win with dark elves...they may not be a team YOU are particularly suited to playing, but they are a good team and can be very successful. maybe you're a better orc coach or something.

Dunno - I only own dark elf, chaos and gobbo figures. I used to think I was quite good with dark elves and then played in the MBBL and lost more often than I won. I don't think it is much of a style thing... I just haven't played as much as others, I make my decisions too quickly, and I haven't worked out the TZ thing - I tend to always try to ensure that I never leave any elf in base-to-base contact with an opponent's player. Although this means he can only get one blitz, it does mean that all his guys are free to do anything... and I begin my turn with lots of dodges needed before I can achieve what I want to do. Somehow I need to work out how you decide which elves to leave in TZs and which ones you get out... but I just haven't been able to figure it yet.

You are probably right on that I give Shadowing out too early - but then I've never had a player with more than three skills and it gets dull just giving out the same skills over and over again. I like a bit of variety - which is why I coach elves.

Martyn

[Zombie]

I haven't worked out the TZ thing - I tend to always try to ensure that I never leave any elf in base-to-base contact with an opponent's player. Although this means he can only get one blitz, it does mean that all his guys are free to do anything... and I begin my turn with lots of dodges needed before I can achieve what I want to do. Somehow I need to work out how you decide which elves to leave in TZs and which ones you get out... but I just haven't been able to figure it yet.

The problem is that you dodge them out BEFORE doing the important stuff. Do the important stuff first, and THEN dodge the other elves out. You'll find out that you win many more games this way.

[Zombie]

What i'd like to see to differentiate high elves and dark elves more is AV9, MA5 elves. Something along those lines:

http://home.worldonline.dk/nyskes/bbowl/D_elvenkin.htm

[wesleytj]

totally..you need to develop priorities...assume every move you make is the last one you'll get to make that turn...dodge elves off ONLY after everything else is done, and don't dodge them completely out of the play, or worse yet, all scrunched together in a big ball in the middle of the field so the other team can surround you.

[martynq]

I did say that I reckon I make wrong decisions. I usually end up with almost every single player in an opposing tackle zone, so yes it does seem like every move is my last. I try to do the important stuff first, but often this depends on something else done before... and this fails.

Whatever it is you do to ensure that about half your team can move without having to roll, I don't do it. Usually at most one or two of my players have free moves and so something easily goes wrong, unless the dice are really friendly.

Oh yeah, I do end up with my team in a big ball and get surrounded. I don't know how it ends up like this but it just does.

I know my saying I'm rubbish gets boring... but at least I'm not claiming abilities beyond what I have.

Martyn

[Longshot]

if i remenber well a discussion with JJ, he told us about some positionnal ST4, AG3 elves...
I need the memories of Fondu or L_Dauguet on this one.

[Snew]

Great. Now I have visions of Uber Elves dancing through my head. ST4 MF-ers busting holes just big enough for AG4 prissies dropping flower petals to dance through.

I don't want to see that. I'm going to gouge my eyes out and play with my food...

[Balrog]

If people want to play Elves with stronger players then they can just take the Orc roster, call them Elves, and paint their figs accordingly; seems simple enough to me.

-Balrog

[GalakStarscraper]

Great. Now I have visions of Uber Elves dancing through my head. ST4 MF-ers busting holes just big enough for AG4 prissies dropping flower petals to dance through.

I don't want to see that. I'm going to gouge my eyes out and play with my food...

Fundamental rule of Blood Bowl that the MBBL2 taught me the hard way. After 2 years of trying, I've basically come to the conclusion that there is no such creature as a balanced roster that has AG 4 and ST 4 at the same time without SERIOUS new negative rules thrown in (ie COFAB on the Vampire team which I was very pleased to see JJ liked).

If an Elf team comes out with an ST 4 player on the roster that is not a Big GUy ... I'll be one of the first to scream and it will be based on 2 years of playtesting not from a knee jerk reaction.

Galak

[Anthony_TBBF]

The new roster isn't strength based. Deep breaths.

[GalakStarscraper]

[quote="wesleytj"]totally..you need to develop priorities...[quote]

Wes .. seriously ... could you play Martyn's Dark Elf roster against him in a PBeM game. This would help Martyn see some strategy and he'd be able to back up and review the game whenever to brush up.

I know you aren't a PBeM player ... but one game to help out a struggling Elf coach might be okay ... maybe?

Galak

[Zombie]

I'm telling you guys, they'll be AV9 and MA5!