Cyanide releases their Khorne Roster

[Smeborg]

now that there has been a lot of play testing with the Khorne roster what changes would you make to them? Would you like them added to the regulation teams?

I don't think there's been nearly enough play testing of the team yet. It's one thing for lots of people to play a few games - what's needed is to see how the team performs at (say) TV200+. I haven't seen any posts indicating play testing at that level.

All the best.

[besters]

now that there has been a lot of play testing with the Khorne roster what changes would you make to them? Would you like them added to the regulation teams?

I don't think there's been nearly enough play testing of the team yet. It's one thing for lots of people to play a few games - what's needed is to see how the team performs at (say) TV200+. I haven't seen any posts indicating play testing at that level.

All the best.

+ 1, I think there are still months of playtesting, and as importantly review discussion, before any view on the team can be formed.

[dode74]

I don't think there's been nearly enough play testing of the team yet. It's one thing for lots of people to play a few games - what's needed is to see how the team performs at (say) TV200+. I haven't seen any posts indicating play testing at that level.

All the best.

While I do have statistics for 800+ completed games in FOL, the vast majority are (and I suspect will remain, as that is the nature of online MM) at lower TVs. Of those played and completed, Khorne are 286/184/418 for a 42.57% win percentage.

[Smeborg]

HI dode - thanks for your stats as ever.

Do you have any worthwhile stats showing performance at different TVs (e.g. low vs. mid)?

All the best.

[dode74]

Not really. There haven't been enough games played yet. I should get more data at the end of the next season, so mid to late January.

[Nephron]

Hi guys,

today I had my match against Woodelves.
I lost 0:1 unfortunately.

Nothing really went as I hoped. I always think it sound like an excuse to blame the dice but in this case, I believe it is true. I got double skulls 2 or three times in addition to several 1 rolls on Pickups, Launch and Dodge rolls. In addition, I only managed to K.O some Elves instead of CAS.

So all I took from the match was another loss and 5 SPP for the MvP. So after 5 matches(2/0/3) my roster looks like this:

Khorne Herald 3SPP(TD)
Khorne Herald Block 12 SPP(MVP, TD, CAS, CAS)
Bloodletter Daemon 5SPP(MVP)
Bloodletter Daemon 1SPP(Pass)
Bloodletter Daemon Block 12SPP(MVP, MVP, CAS)
Bloodletter Daemon 0SPP
PitFighter 3SPP(TD)
PitFighter 8SPP(TD, MVP) - waiting for validation of the match. Most likely will get Leader if it isnt a double or AG/STR+
PitFighter 1SPP(Pass)
3xPitFighter 0SPP

Treasury 100k
3RR
1Apo

My main problem seems to be, that I only scored 4 TDs and 3 CAS in 5 games. I am hoping that in one of my next games, the dice will finally be in my favor and that I get a few more CAS in on players that are close to lvling.
I could get another Pit Fighter with the money I have, but I think I will keep 12 players for the moment, in case one of my deamons dies or gets crippled.

After getting leader I will go for a thrower on a PF, but I am not sure if I should go Sure Hands or Pass first. Sure Hands would be nice for Pickups, but does nothing in regards to the PFs throwing capabilities. My main problem with throwing at the moment is, that often the launch or catch fails. In my last game it was always the launch. So I am thinking I might go Pass first. What do you think?
Failing to PickUp the ball once isnt so bad, as long as the ball isnt too close to the LoS or the enemy hast some fast players that can penetrate my defense.

Next match is against an Underworld team, but I think it will be 2013 before that match takes place
I will keep you posted on my progress.

Bye,
Nephron

[Smeborg]

Thanks, Nephron, and all the best with this young team.

With all the players on the Khorne team being MA6, and all except the Bloodthirster being AG3, I have found it relatively easy to prioritise TDs for players within 3 SPPs of an upgrade by putting them in potential Receiver position early in the offensive drive (as early as turn 1). This does not mean they will always get the TD, but will get it in (say) 1 in 3 or 4 attempts. This helps contribute to a well rounded team, able to get by without getting loads of SPPs.

I incline to give the first Pit Fighter to level up Leader, unless it is a doubles (Guard). The team felt quite a bit better once I got Leader.

I prefer Sure Hands to Pass as first skill on the "Thrower". It does not help with passing, true, but it does help a lot with re-rolls, a key to the team. It takes 16 SPPs to create an expensive "Thrower" with both Sure Hands and Pass, but such is the team. I also incline towards creating a single Bloodletter Runner with Block/Dodge/Sure Hands (perhaps the first to reach 31 SPPs). This strategy may be altered by stat increases (+AG and to a lesser extent +MA).

As a general point, I have found it does not help to try and hold the ball too much with Khorne - better to score when you can, unless things are going rather well. In this way you will get an acceptable number of TDs and SPPs. The CAS will come by virtue of the number of blocks Khorne lay down, but you can do little to influence where or when they fall. The Heralds will get more CAS because they take more blitzes, that's about all you can say.

[Edit: I would also be inclined to buy a 13th player at this stage.]

[Podfrey]

I've been playing with Khorne on Cyanide (solo vs computer, so I know that results don't really count!)

I've found the Bloodthirster to be immense once he has MB, but overall I now feel he's a later game piece in the league, but still worth considering for a tournament.

With their lack of Frenzy, the Bloodletters are quite easy to get to 6 SPPs (Block) then from there to 16 SPPs (Guard) and on to 31 SPPs (Dodge). These have turned out to be the glue that helps the team stick together and gets the most out of the mass frenzy of the Pit Fighters. I actually started out with no Bloodletters* but, over time, have added them in as the team has evolved.

With hindsight I'd do it slightly differently and start with Bloodletters and bring the Bloodthirster in later

I've also been lucky to pick up a block, dodge, +1 AG, +1 ST Pit Fighter. Strategy is to pick up with him, move into cage, put the desired scorer downfield, then clear the way before moving the ball forwards to hand off/2+ pass and score. No skill rerolls used, but willingness to put a team RR into the action. With Sure Hands you could also use the same strategy. After that its about deleting / surfing the opposing players with Frenzy


*I opted for Bloodthirster plus (cheap) Pit Fighters

[Nephron]

Hi,

I tried to spread out the SPP but it can sometimes get difficult for me, because of all the Frenzy
In this match against the WE I tried to get a TD with my other Herald, to get him to 6SPP. As I already stated, I failed in that
But I will keep trying.

I forgot to mention one thing. I said that I would like to play with 12 players for the moment. Smeborg recommended getting the 13th player. But I just looked over my team again and saw that one of my 0SPP PFs has a Niggling injury. Since he doesnt have any SPP yet, its easy to replace him and I think I will do that, before getting player number 13. He would only add another 60TV to my team and give my next opponent more Inducements.

[Smeborg]

Played another rare league game last night with Khorne, and had a tough time. Playing against rookie Humies with inducements, I won 2-0 (CAS: 3-2), but my opponent was an inexperienced coach. He passed the ball a turn early, used the Wizard (probably) at the wrong time, and missed a chance to surf my ST4 ball-carrying Bloodletter when I got into trouble (too technical for him). I suspect a more experienced coach might have managed at least a draw. The match was in pouring rain, which was something of a nightmare, as the team doesn't even have Sure Hands yet. I was lucky, as I managed to pick up the ball whenever needed, but usually at the cost of a re-roll. Whereas my opponent spilled the ball a couple of times.

On the longest drive, my opponent got a Blitz!, this saw me recover the poached ball, but out of position and forced to cage (never a good sign for Khorne, unless within reach of the end zone). The cage went backwards and sideways for several turns, before I got lucky.

The difficulties I faced in this match suggest to me that Khorne are strugglers and battlers, rather than a naturally strong team. Perhaps "sporting" is a kinder word.

I also suffered a permanent injury on a 1-skill Herald (-1AV apoth'd to Niggle). I will likely retire him. This is the second 1-skill positional that I have lost to permanent injury. I have a sneaking suspicion that Khorne are one of those teams that are prone to "untimely CAS syndrome".

Still early days, though.

All the best.

[Nephron]

Hi guys,

its been a while since I gave you an update on my team.
First was my match against Underworld. The coach was very skilled and I had a really hard time, getting to his ball carrier. He received and quickly managed to score his first TD.
Then the worst thing possible happened. He kicked the ball directly behind the LoS on my side and got a Blitz. His AG4 Goblin managed to catch the ball and he scored his second TD at the end of the first half. He protected his ball carrier really well, and since my team doesnt have Tackle and I didn't roll enough POWs there was not much I could do, despite having more players on the field.
In the second half, I received and got the ball safely into his half. Then I made a mistake. I tried to handoff the ball to my 3SPP Khorne Herald, which he didn't catch, despite a RR. I took me 2 turns to get the ball back and score.
The last Kickoff-Event was a Riot which took my last chance at getting a draw.
So the match ended 2:1 for Underworld. The Blitz really did screw up the whole match.

Yesterday I played against Goblins. Our TV was even, so he couldn't buy any bribes. He really had bad luck. His Ball&Chain hurt himself with a Skull, Skull, Both down. His Bombers only action was a throw, which of course was another 1.
His Chainsaw always rolled a 1 on the first try and was practically useless. At halftime the score was 1:1.
In the second half, I took my time and scored the winning TD in turn 16.
The match went good for me, but the absolutely catastrophic rolls for my opponent really made it easy for me.
Unfortunately he managed to kill my 5SPP Bloodletter and I decided not to use the Apo for him, since it was early in the match and I was afraid of loosing more important players to his Chainsaw. I worried over nothing, but now I have to replace him, since Regeneration didn't work. I got 100k in the bank atm, so that wont be a problem.

My team now looks like this:

Khorne Herald 7SPP(TD, CAS, CAS) - rolled an 11
Khorne Herald Block, Mighty Blow 22 SPP(MVP, TD, CAS, CAS, TD, TD, CAS, CAS)
Bloodletter Daemon Block 7SPP(MVP, CAS)
Bloodletter Daemon 1SPP(Pass)
Bloodletter Daemon Block 14SPP(MVP, MVP, CAS, CAS)

PitFighter Sure Hands 8SPP(TD, MVP)
PitFighter Leader 8SPP(TD, MVP)
PitFighter 1SPP(Pass)
2xPitFighter 3SPP(TD)
PitFighter 0SPP

Treasury 100k
3RR
1Apo
1Cheerleader
1Assistant Coach

As mentioned above, my second Herald now rolled 11 for his lvlup. Should I give him the +AG. I planned on developing him into a killer also, but now I am unsure if I should still go that way, if he got AG4.
What do you guys think?

Bye,
Nephron

[Smeborg]

HI Nephron -

Yes, I would give the Herald +AG. The team is short on AG and MA, anything that helps with these on the positional players should be taken IMO.

With +AG, you have a good receiver and utility player. But most importantly, the +AG makes him a better blitzer, it gives improved crowd-surfing threats.

You might get Dodge later, this would combine really well.

All the best.

[Podfrey]

I'd take the +1 AG too. It would be better on a PF, but never look a gift horse in the mouth! It makes him VERY useful for helping the rest of the team skill up (2+ catch for the Comp).

Interesting to see Sure Hands in there (and Ldr to a certain extent). I've just Spam Blocked as an alternative to the 4th RR :

http://www.thenaf.net/index.php?module= ... iew&t=6899

I'm happy with 12 + Apo. I wouldn't bloat the team with any Coaches or Cheerleaders at this point though. Ideal is to skill Bloodletters to Block, Guard, Dodge (then leave to progress naturally), Herald gets MB (then leave) and Pit Fighters to all get Block, then 2nd skill some. At that point I should have enough cash, and enough Block support, to bring in Billy Big Nuts

Long term I see 4 x Block, Dodge, Guard Bloodletters, 1 x Thirster (MB + Piling On), 2 x Block, Guard, MB Heralds and 6 or so Block, Guard PFs (sack & replace PFs without a double or +AG/ST).

Although I'm 3-0-0, I could easily be 0-2-1, especially as I've taken the higher risk strategy of "over blocking". However that has brought the reward of 9 CAS (ie 18 SPPs) in just 3 games.

Like you, I've had a chance to Apo (a niggle) that I didn't take and so I've had to replace. BTW, our league starts with 5 FF (in case you wondered why so high after just 3 games) and 1m to spend on team.

Overall, it plays in an interesting way, not too powerful and full of traps (for both sides!!)

[Smeborg]

I'd take the +1 AG too. It would be better on a PF, but never look a gift horse in the mouth! It makes him VERY useful for helping the rest of the team skill up (2+ catch for the Comp).

Interesting to see Sure Hands in there (and Ldr to a certain extent). I've just Spam Blocked as an alternative to the 4th RR :

http://www.thenaf.net/index.php?module= ... iew&t=6899

I'm happy with 12 + Apo. I wouldn't bloat the team with any Coaches or Cheerleaders at this point though. Ideal is to skill Bloodletters to Block, Guard, Dodge (then leave to progress naturally), Herald gets MB (then leave) and Pit Fighters to all get Block, then 2nd skill some. At that point I should have enough cash, and enough Block support, to bring in Billy Big Nuts

Long term I see 4 x Block, Dodge, Guard Bloodletters, 1 x Thirster (MB + Piling On), 2 x Block, Guard, MB Heralds and 6 or so Block, Guard PFs (sack & replace PFs without a double or +AG/ST).

Although I'm 3-0-0, I could easily be 0-2-1, especially as I've taken the higher risk strategy of "over blocking". However that has brought the reward of 9 CAS (ie 18 SPPs) in just 3 games.

Like you, I've had a chance to Apo (a niggle) that I didn't take and so I've had to replace. BTW, our league starts with 5 FF (in case you wondered why so high after just 3 games) and 1m to spend on team.

Overall, it plays in an interesting way, not too powerful and full of traps (for both sides!!)

Hi Podfrey - I quite like your ideas and will be interested to see how you get on. I am not sure that hiring and firing Pit Fighters until you get Guard is a viable strategy, as in my experience they are the most difficult players to skill up (because they are the least mobile, and the most prone to getting stuck in contact). Also I wonder how long you can manage without S-Hands, not just from a RR point of view, but also when facing S-Ball. Happy to be proved wrong on both counts, of course.

My feeling is that eventually the team will settle on a decent ball-carrier, probably as a result of a stat increase or two, otherwise a 3-skill Bloodletter might do the trick (Block, Dodge, S-Hands). A Pit Fighter developed as a "Thrower" seems needed to me when the team has to score in 2 turns or thereabouts (seems quite common, this team does not control the clock), and RRs are spent.

All the best.

[Podfrey]

I've played a lot of tournament games vs Strip Ball (without having SH) and have learned how to manage it, rather than just suck it up and take the skill. As such I find Block (or Guard!) on another player to be much more worthwhile.

In terms of league development, I'm happy to use my tournament experience and nominate one player at the start of my drive as "the scorer". ST3, AG3 and MV6 are all perfectly fine for this role, it's then the rest of the teams job to clear the path!! (as you say, you don't really want to have to get this guy blocking/blitzing on the way there!!!)

I wouldn't nominate a rookie, it would normally be a 2xCAS or someone who got opportunistic and grabbed a TD (usually from turning over the oppo's drive). Anyone who gets an MVP I also dedicate to getting a COMP next game, even if that takes 4 turns and 2 RRs. Finally I hate having players on 0 SPPs. If I have one they'll try and get a cheeky COMP so that if the MVP lands on them it's insta-Skill, otherwise a CAS puts them in "nominate me for the TD" category.

Once all / most of my players have one skill I build the team up from there. It's often that my teams have no "star" player, but instead are a team where positioning "that" guy in the right place is less of an issue