(Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Necros vs the world of Blood Bowl

[swilhelm73]

Z kick, guard, dp

I have a problem with this one.

110k for a DP? Too pricey...DPs should ideally have only the one skill.

[JaM]

I'd go with kick, block, tackle IF he ever gets 3 skills.
Not a fan of DP, maybe on a 'spare' zombie or skeleton (if this were undead).

Otherwise I agree. For what it's worth.

[Digger Goreman]

Z kick, guard, dp

I have a problem with this one.

110k for a DP? Too pricey...DPs should ideally have only the one skill.

I'd go with kick, block, tackle IF he ever gets 3 skills.
Not a fan of DP, maybe on a 'spare' zombie or skeleton (if this were undead).

Otherwise I agree. For what it's worth.

I hear you, gentlemen, and do remember the caveat that zeds rarely reach these levels (I would expect never, cept in a long running perpetual league).... Most likely the kicker will always be just the kicker, barring random mvps.... And... kick for me is a necessity! So what happens on that rare occasion the kicker gets a second skill? Definitely a rarity....

Also, if you do have a dedicated DP player, it will come at the expense of some other skill.... I'm only preparing a guide and deviations are the coach's prerogative, of course, so JaM wouldn't likely have a DP... no problem.... Swilhelm, what would your 5 (or less) zeds look like?

[Digger Goreman]

So, to summarize and proceed with the analysis:

The "standard" team build is 3 Blockle Zombies, with a kicker and a "tar-baby" (wrackle) pair of specialists; a surehands+block ghoul... wrackle ghoul; a pair of MiB+guard+tackle wights; a pair of block+guard golems; and a pair of blodge+SS wolves... certainly not the worst team in the world....

As I said, a Necro team is defined by what it can't have.... So, here's the dead areas of the undead....

Passing game: not going to reliably happen without giving up something.... An ersatz passing game can be had with a +ag to a ghoul/wight/werewolf (but this compromises their traditional roles or delays standard development), and you will want +ag/catch on the other end to complete the throw... another adjustment....
Happiest circumstance? +Ag on a ghoul... or force the issue by taking Pass/Safe Throw on a ghoul double... or take strong arm on a wight....

Leader: is a special need for the Necromancer team.... Rerolls, after team creation, are a ridiculous 140k and can be reduced to 30k at the cost of someone's double.... If lucky enough to get a double, what are you willing to give up? Certainly nothing available to your werewolves.... Give up a blodging wight? Hmmm.... Block/Dodge on a golem? Unlikely to maybe.... Trust the reroll to the fleeting life of a ghoul? Lose a guard zombie...? Perhaps....

To be continued....

[swilhelm73]

On my necro team I never had much development on my Zombies.

On the current roster after 87 games I have:

Z: Wrestle, Fend
Z: Wrestle
Z: Wrestle
Z; DP
Z: Pending regular skill...either DP or Wrestle

The guy with Wrestle, Fend has played 76 games (3rd in longevity on the team)...so the combo does keep them alive...

[Digger Goreman]

Other "dead" areas of the undead Necro game plan (i.e., skills you might miss):

Skills: General
Who?: Anyone
What: dauntless, fend, frenzy, pro
Suggestions: I can't see giving up any skill for pro (on a Necro team).... Frenzy should only be chosen for reliable blockers and your wights are busy providing desperately needed strength access.... Dauntless is great for handling higher strength players but where do you dare to put it? Zombies will give up tackle/fend as a second skill and a werewolf would give up the security of sidestep as a third, or later, skill.... Having said all that, Zombies have done well on two teams with either the Wrestle+Fend combo, or the Block+Dauntless skills....

Skills: Agility
Who?: Werewolves and Ghouls
What: catch, diving catch, diving tackle, jump up, leap, sneaky git, sprint, sure feet
Suggestions: Dedicating a ghoul to catching is a possibility if taking him out of the ball hunting (wrackle), or fetching (surehands+block) role.... Likewise a werewolf would forego the blitzer role and seemingly waste frenzy by becoming a catcher.... Coaches have reported usefulness in taking jump up as a later skill on a werewolf with Piling On.... A leaping werewolf would be awesome with all that speed, but 50% failure is really not an option.... You can't afford to use a positional on fouling, so no sneaky git.... Sprint and sure feet are luxuries....

Skills: Strength
Who?: Wights and Flesh Golems
What: break tackle, grab, juggernaut, multiple block, strong arm, thick skull
Suggestions: break tackle and multiple block are for really big guys with at least St 5.... Strong Arm might be a deviation for a wight to attempt a passing game and grab would be great to set up opponents for werewolf blitzes and surfs, but is unlikely to be chosen before the third (and more likely fourth) skill choice on a wight.... Unless you are lucky/unlucky with random mvps, the golems are highly unlikely to see grab as a remotely optimal choice.... Thick Skull is rarely a chosen skill, paling in comparison with skills most needed on the Necro team.... Juggernaut is only likely to be chosen situationally, i.e., if your known opponents use a LOT of wrestle, fend and/or stand firm.... As an aside, a first two skills double+double werewolf was highly successful for me with MiB+Juggernaut

Comments?

[neverworking]

I have had good luck taking dauntless on zombies, and as a later skill on werewolves when playing in a league with a lot of strength teams. I've even found it a reasonable first choice in some leagues on a zombie, though not usually for the first zombies to skill up.

I tend to approach dauntless as tied into the amount of guard and strength boosts I have, and the rest of the league's relative strength and guard. So it's not exactly straight forward to say when or if to take it on anyone. I do think it's wise to look at your zombies as a collection of tools to be built differently so that you have the right tool for different occasions, particularly on the second skill. So when I say it's even a reasonable first choice on a zombie, I mean on one zombie to give me an extra tool to use on certain occasions and left on the bench at other times.

[Digger Goreman]

So, let's see if we can create a passing team without doubles or stat increases... how about:

Z wrestle+fend x3
Z kick
Z wrestle, tackle

Rationale: wrestle+fend zombies have a greater chance of taking down opponents to keep the passing wight and receiving ghoul clear of "markers"....

Gl surehands, block, kor
Gl catch, wrestle, jump up

Rationale: Surehands fetches ball and runs until handing off to strong arm wight, or handing directly off to catch ghoul.... Maybe take kor before block.... (heresy! ) The catch ghoul only goes down hard on a 6 and could survive the lone blitz attack just to jump up and receive a pass.... The catch ghoul would still be a decent blitzer....

Wt Strong Arm, guard, MiB
Wt MiB, guard, tackle

Go ahead and commit to the passing game with a first skill choice of Strong Arm... maybe getting lucky later and getting a doubles or +Ag to enhance his specialist role....

Fgx2 Block, guard, MiB

Wwx2 block, dodge, sidestep

Is all this doable and/or is there a better way?

[MKL]

Tried it.
Doesn't work. The problem isn't the passing game per se, that works...
The problem is that with a Wight and some Ghoul acting as passer and receiver, your wolves are gonna doing screen duty.
The opponent pounce on the Wolves with glee, maybe even taking a TD in the process, but you start getting Wolves in the dugout or MNG. As soon it happens, the team's performance drops noticeably: replacing an ma8 Wolf with a ma4 Zed is a lot of difference. Your
Mobility is suffering, and you have to rely on grind (with 1 less claw) and ever more difficult passing... Because, it's not rocket science to figure who are the possible receivers in this team, and with one less Wolf on the team you aren't fooling many people.

Granted, when I tried it I had no Wrestle Zed, but I remain skeptic

[Digger Goreman]

One should always remain skeptical....

My screen is usually based on my whole team, with golems and wights providing the advance (hammer), zombies the base holding action (anvil), and wolves either carrying the ball in the early go or running in and out of the screen to do the most damage.... A dedicated passing game would take a wight out of hammer duty....

[MKL]

One should always remain skeptical....

My screen is usually based on my whole team, with golems and wights providing the advance (hammer), zombies the base holding action (anvil), and wolves either carrying the ball in the early go or running in and out of the screen to do the most damage.... A dedicated passing game would take a wight out of hammer duty....

Agree. But usual game require to screen a player, the ball carrier.
A passing game require to screen two players: the carrier and the receiver.
Many times only the wolves are fast enough to cover the ghoul.

[swilhelm73]

One should always remain skeptical....

and wolves either carrying the ball in the early go or running in and out of the screen to do the most damage.... ....

I find that when my wolves carry the ball, except in desperate situations, my team effectiveness drops dramatically.

Mv8 can get you out of dangerous situations...but with your best hitter not hitting your opponents will take a lot less attrition.

[Digger Goreman]

One should always remain skeptical....

and wolves either carrying the ball in the early go or running in and out of the screen to do the most damage.... ....

I find that when my wolves carry the ball, except in desperate situations, my team effectiveness drops dramatically.

Mv8 can get you out of dangerous situations...but with your best hitter not hitting your opponents will take a lot less attrition.

Oui, but you have to do something to skill them up....

[neverworking]

I think if you're going to make a passing team and use the wight as the thrower (which seems the most logical to me) you need to commit to that plan and not use 2 skill slots on the ghoul for ball retrieval. While you will want a certain amount of killing power somewhere on the team, the thrower wight can probably skip mighty blow as he will not be using it much on offense now, and he will be accumulating SPPs regularly through the pass. This would free him up for sure hands, KOR, or pro to improve his new roll as thrower/ball handler. WW have a tendency to accumulate skills faster than the rest of the team, so while I wouldn't suggest you skip the core three skills suggested, the 4th skill has more options and could be used on catch/diving catch/pro to improve their reliability as receivers.

[Digger Goreman]

I think if you're going to make a passing team and use the wight as the thrower (which seems the most logical to me) you need to commit to that plan and not use 2 skill slots on the ghoul for ball retrieval. While you will want a certain amount of killing power somewhere on the team, the thrower wight can probably skip mighty blow as he will not be using it much on offense now, and he will be accumulating SPPs regularly through the pass. This would free him up for sure hands, KOR, or pro to improve his new roll as thrower/ball handler. WW have a tendency to accumulate skills faster than the rest of the team, so while I wouldn't suggest you skip the core three skills suggested, the 4th skill has more options and could be used on catch/diving catch/pro to improve their reliability as receivers.

Sounds reasonable....