(Un-)Living NecroTacticum: Necros vs the world of Blood Bowl

[Digger Goreman]

Revising the passing team without doubles or stat increases... how about:

Z wrestle+fend x3
Z kick
Z wrestle, tackle

Gl block, catch, fend
Gl wrestle, tackle

Wt Surehands, Strong Arm, kor
Wt MiB, guard, tackle

Fgx2 Block, guard, MiB

Wwx2 block, dodge, sidestep

This will have to be a fast scoring team that doesn't bog down....

[Digger Goreman]

Many thanks for all the comments and advice so far, its much appreciated. I take on board whats been said about screening not caging, and will try to focus on this. The hardest part is trying to avoid getting bogged down. My natural instinct is to man mark wherever I can with zombies which ends up turning to a bashathon I often lose. By screening are we referring to sets of 1x2 columns as a preference?

I am not sure about the column reference except where I have seen it used on defensive setups.... Necros have been tagged as a "hybrid" team... not strictly "bash" and certainly not elfie-skaven though they do share a certain amount of speed with the vermin.... Caging teams do this:

w*F
*G*
w*F

or something like it to protect the ball carrier.... When I talk about a screen (and hopefully others will chime in if I'm not speaking for the majority), I mean that some part of your team is going to interpose themselves between the ball carrier and their opponents using a fluid technique like gobbos, snots and sometimes elves ( ) use and as often as not using the sideline as the 12th man:

*G*t*
****Z
***F*
**F**
*Z***

Where the opponent does not have the speed to wrap around the front and blitz/engage the ghoul... obviously, the screeners may vary....

[Digger Goreman]

Diggers suggestion about overloading one side is intriguing, though I imagine not something to do against a side with kick. My fear with that is a failed pickup/short kick on opposite side leaves me screwed before I even begin? Would someone be able to suggest an offensive formation for this? I'm not quite sure where the balance of overloading and overcommitting is!!

How you set up is situational and depends on your opponent's defensive setup.... Most opponents fear the wolves and will give you the sidelines.... So I will sometimes do this if I want to score fast:

*T*wFFT*Z*Z**Z*
****w**********
***************
***************
***************
With a ghoul to pick up the ball and hand-off/pass.... Again this is situational, and in the best case scenario you will even have the zed on the far right loose to man mark an opposing positional/lend an assist to the LoS....

[Digger Goreman]

Ive often seen people refer to blitzing with the werewolves for obvious reasons and it sounds like this is something to be done every turn. However, and this may just be a reflection on the much more expienced guys I play with, I rarely find targets that I can attack and get away from as well due to a lack of isolated targets. Ive been guilty in the past of picking the best of a bad bunch, but Im starting to think more about relying on Wights unless somethingobvious comes up? Most people I play with lurve the fouling, and a wolf stuck next to someone may as well sign his death warrant

Pick your battles.... Often just the threat of a loose wolf will dictate how your opponent plays.... Unless absolutely necessary, make sure the wolf has assists for the 2d block (intial and followup).... Score with the wolves and get block quickly.... At first a wight might just be the best blitzer for the situation....

Finally, Ive heard a lot from people about FG's 'anchoring' a push. Could you expand on that? My interpretation so far is that once a hole is made on one sideline (eg left side) one golem goes to the top left of that breach and another bottom right? (whether as a cage or otherwise). Is that roughly what you mean?

I am guessing that golems create anchors wherever they are since you cannot ordinarily push them out of the way and even their downed bodies can funnel opponents into other defenders.... Positioning is everything and stand firm+av9+thick skull makes for a darned good roadblock....

[swilhelm73]

Ive often seen people refer to blitzing with the werewolves for obvious reasons and it sounds like this is something to be done every turn. However, and this may just be a reflection on the much more expienced guys I play with, I rarely find targets that I can attack and get away from as well due to a lack of isolated targets. Ive been guilty in the past of picking the best of a bad bunch, but Im starting to think more about relying on Wights unless somethingobvious comes up? Most people I play with lurve the fouling, and a wolf stuck next to someone may as well sign his death warrant

A good opponent will set up frenzy traps for your wolves, you just have to figure out how to avoid them.

Remember that if you Frenzy an opponent into a SF piece he won't move.

And once your wolves are developed and have blodge you can be a *little* less concerned about protecting them. A 2D without tackle has only an 11/36 chance of taking down your wolf. If you have SS you can even set your opponent up in a bad position if he just draws a push. Obviously keep in mind what your opponent can do to your wolf before you take an action with him - so don't send him out alone unless the potential reward is high.

If you rely on the wights as your primary hitters you are largely wasting the wolves. In fact, this might be one of the biggest differences between undead and necro...as the former expect a hitter/killer wight.

[Digger Goreman]

A good opponent will set up frenzy traps for your wolves.... And once your wolves are developed and have blodge.... If you rely on the wights as your primary hitters you are largely wasting the wolves. In fact, this might be one of the biggest differences between undead and necro...as the former expect a hitter/killer wight.

I am more egalitarian with who is a "hitter" preferring a block wolf, but bending to the situation.... Usually the blitzer is the block/wrestle enabled player with the shortest distance needed to sack the carrier with other positionals recovering and advancing the ball if possible.... All other things being equal, I am perfectly happy for a wight to pop the ball and make recovery with a wolf or ghoul.... Ofc, if the target has blodge, I tend more toward the wolf for the frenzy potential to push + down... then, again, a wrestle ghoul... hmmmmm....

[swilhelm73]

Most hits aren't to knock the ball lose though. Obviously if you have a decent shot take it...knocking the ball lose may well win you the game.

But for most of the match you are going to be blitzing targets to expose the ball carrier, free up your other players, or attrition. Wolves are almost always better at the latter two due to Frenzy and Claw (though if they don't get MB on a doubles Claw is less valuable).

In fact, you can do some really interesting things with Frenzy that your opponents may not expect...

[Digger Goreman]

Agreed, though my eye is always on the prize!

And we are trying to help our friend with his offense....

A tangential thought on the passing game:

First double on a ghoul/(preferably)wight you take Safe Throw... (wight later/already gets/has Strong Arm)....

Most of the time I would rather throw the ball downfield or just hold onto it, and at least I wouldn't be fumbling the darned thing, even on a bomb (most of the time)....

Other ghoul/both ghouls get catch....

[crimsonsun]

Remember that if you Frenzy an opponent into a SF piece he won't move.

while being aware that a Stand firm piece can always opt not to use it, this is more important in the above example when playing table top!

[Digger Goreman]

Looking back at Shaeffers offensive concerns: maybe the offensive setup from my website might help>

*wt**Z*Z*Z**tw*
***************
******FZF******
***************
***************
***************
***************
*******g*******

w=werewolf, t=wight, Z=zombie, F=flesh golem, g=ghoul

N.b.: the weres and wights can set back one square as needed....

End of turn 1:

*****ZTZTZFZF**
*************g*
*********W*****

The left hand wight can fill either los positions (red or black t) or establish part of a cage.... The wight and were not shown establish a downfield blitz and, depending on success and needed positioning, establish the front of the cage or get in scoring position.... Hopefully all three zeds on the line have pushed back or downed their opponents with 2d blocks....

Should the kick go deep, you can drop back the golems and zed + at least two positionals to cover the pickup and cage, or at least screen, the ball carrier....

Comments?

[Digger Goreman]

To create a useful fallback position, one or both werewolves will need to setup inside:

*tw**Z*Z*Z**wt*
***************
******FZF******
***************
***************

***************
***************
*******g*******

w=werewolf, t=wight, Z=zombie, F=flesh golem, g=ghoul

Should the kick go deep, you can drop back the golems and at least two positionals to cover the pickup and cage, or at least screen, the ball carrier.... This is the furtherest the golems can retreat.... The wights are your wildcards and should go where they will do the most good/harm....

*t*Z*Z*Z*Z*****
***************
*******t*******
***************
***************
**F*F**********
***g***********
**w*w**********
***************
***************
***************
***************

My concern for the initial setup is the vulnerability of the outside LoS zombies to a blitz; very deep kicks vs thrown and speedy dodgers; and failure of the ghoul to pick up inside the cage... which could be somewhat mitigated by wight placement and/or using a second ghoul in place of the fourth zed....

[Digger Goreman]

Anyone, but especially Matt: what is the most likely defensive setup you would use against Necros?

[mattgslater]

I like the 303 screen, sometimes called the "boat", with 5 safeties. Vs. any Frenzy, I set up a tight 101 line: a wide-spread line is asking for surf. Ziggurat is okay, but exposing all but 2 of your guys to screen out a team that can't set up deep formations is a little suboptimal at higher value. Really, against Necros, the game is about getting them to commit their FGs and Zs one way, then forcing a reverse, exposing position players and hedging out the reinforcements.

Really, I only use 5 defenses, ever.

* Ziggurat, usually with or vs speed;
* 303 nickel boat, usually vs bash;
* 32023 stacked second level, usually with midrange vs speed;
* asymmetric sideline defense, with speed and skills;
* stacked LOS, vs. crippled opponent.

[swilhelm73]

The Zig is pretty standard but could you share what your other defenses look like?

For myself, defenses are all about the particular matchup and situation, so asking what D to use against Necro can only be answered if you know what team you are using against them.

I mostly use two defenses - the Zig and the Arrowhead. The latter is something like

Code: Select all

**XXX**
*******
X**X**X
*X***X*
**X*X**
***X***

But I'll often modify either to put myself in what I believe to be a better position.

[Digger Goreman]

Understood... assume a basic team vs a basic necro offense....