Skaven question

[Heff]

a good team name relating to politics as well

Rat B*stards should cover it...

My current ECBBL team
http://ecbbl.talkfantasyfootball.org/in ... obj_id=841

[Hegel]

Now, next question - which is the best looking team, model wise ? GW is pretty old, Black. Scorpion maybe ? Gaspez ? I'm not a modeller, maybe I could convert Fantasy skaven....

[NightDragon 2]

GW oldest editions are the best in my opinion, so much character.

[Fejwe]

I played Woodies in my league last season and this season I'm playing Skaven. The durability seems to be way less of a problem with Skaven--the players do die and get injured, but rats are ridiculously cheap. I basically just keep enough to replace a gutter runner in the bank whenever possible, have an extra linerat, and even in cases where I've been taken mostly off the pitch, I've almost always been at full strength for the next game. With the woodelves, I tended to play short several players every game just because of their price. Both teams play well short, though I find Skaven want about 7-8 rats on the pitch for a good chance to score, whereas woodelves score with 6 elves. That's a pretty tough order for Skaven in my experience, especially since the 6 are very unlikely to be 4 runners and 2 stormvermin.

Also, I initially didn't take a rat ogre, until I took a serious beating from one at Underworld CUp this year. I added one to the team, and he's been somewhat effective--he's gotten some casualties and the occasional useful block, but he's also ended several turns prematurely by blocking himself down. I'm still up in the air on him--I'm considering cutting him and then inducing when it makes sense, but I just got Break Tackle on him, so I've got to keep him around for a bit, just to see if that makes him more useful.

[Vigfus]

Just won the playoffs with my skaven team.

The best players on your roster are without a doubt the Gutter runners, but the guys that make it happen for you are the blitzers.
I find them the most valuable players on the pitch.

Playing skaven really is about learning to play with speed. Your one unique advantage over other teams is speed, When you've been passed, you can get back in the game. What is very important is your positioning. Do not under any circumstances allow your players to get cramped in. If it happens, it's usually the beginning of the end. Force the opponent to keep guys back, always threaten, attack where you can, get the oppposition to seperate from one another. It creates opportunities.

As for the rat ogre, if you take one, my first skill is break tackle. With that he's just a massive worry for your opponent and he'll tie up other players. Don't go for guard on blitzers, although many advice it, I find it only leads to your most important rats getting a hammering. And use your speed. There is nothing like it.

[Smeborg]

Don't go for guard on blitzers, although many advice it, I find it only leads to your most important rats getting a hammering.

Surely it depends on how you use your Guard players. You don't have to leave them in contact at all if you so choose.

[MKL]

Don't go for guard on blitzers, although many advice it, I find it only leads to your most important rats getting a hammering.

Surely it depends on how you use your Guard players. You don't have to leave them in contact at all if you so choose.

Tangentially, I found that once a blitzer get Guard his development slow down noticeably: he becomes the guy that let the other guys score or blitz, the actions that bring the spp.

Someone else got similar experience?
Vigfus: is your advice related to this? And what is your preferred skill path for Blitzers?

[Smeborg]

Tangentially, I found that once a blitzer get Guard his development slow down noticeably: he becomes the guy that let the other guys score or blitz, the actions that bring the spp.

That appears to be my experience with the Underworld Storm Vermin (I am not an experienced Skaven player). But I find the Underworld very lightweight without Guard - I was wondering if the same were true of Skaven.

All the best.

[Dr. Von Richten]

Skaven (and Underworld) are going to be pretty 'lightweight' anyway. That is; they'll never be able to do a Bashfest, either offensively or defensively. What they need to do is act surgically; key Blitzes (and with Skaven Speed, it's relatively easy to get assists for a 2D Blitz in the right spot) to either make space for the GR's to run through or to remove essential opposing players from the pitch, or preferably both. They need to cause fear, so the opponent will focus on the Blitzers and not the GR's. And therefore, they need Hunter-Killers. Mighty Blow, Piling On, (Claw,) Tackle and Mighty Blow, Tackle, (Claw,) Piling On. And as a bonus, Killers generate so much more SPP than Protectors (Guard, Dodge, all that) that they'll reach 51/76 SPP pretty soon, and then they can take Guard, if you feel you need it.

[Hegel]

I´m at the beginning with my skaven team, gutters are developing, and I´d like to keep the team value down, so no rat ogre at the moment. Now my first blitzer got his first skill and rolled 6/5. Lacking the muscle I wonder whether it´s a good idea to have anaother ag4 player rather than a mighty blow or guard blitzer ? Or should I get the rat ogre anyway ?

[Pedda]

I´m at the beginning with my skaven team, gutters are developing, and I´d like to keep the team value down, so no rat ogre at the moment. Now my first blitzer got his first skill and rolled 6/5. Lacking the muscle I wonder whether it´s a good idea to have anaother ag4 player rather than a mighty blow or guard blitzer ? Or should I get the rat ogre anyway ?

I'd go with the +AG. It helps with gaining SPPs and I'd then take MB at 16 SPPs

[Rolex]

Take it.
It is the best possible advance. It will skill faster then with MB.
Now you have an AG+4 cage. 'nuff said.

Skaven lose their games when you force them to dodge a lot with Ag 3.

[mattgslater]

Getting into this one late, working in order.

1) Skaven are a blast! Easy mode wins and near-impossible challenges, boom-boom-boom-boom-boom. If you're a block-monster like me, they will annoy you hardcore. They don't foul well, and they can't really hold their own in a punch-fest over time, even if you (the coach) have way better skillz than your opponent. Elves and Norse think they have this problem, but elves can dodge and can angle up really good surgical blocking, while Norse can hit back across the board. Still, developed Stormvermin can hit with the best of them, and Gutter Runners are great for mobile assists, so you can win a few fights if you can keep picking the battles.

2) Rat Ogre is optional but excellent, especially in leagues. Skaven are almost a different team with one. Sure AV8 bigs go out fast, but so does everything on the roster: it's not like CDs or Chaos, where you're balancing aggro vs tough. In a league, a RO is an alternative to a lino plus Fezglitch, it's all high-risk aggro. Having that ST at the point of attack is huge: give him Break Tackle and Guard as fast as you can. Don't blitz with him a lot unless it's just too juicy: there's a real art to positioning a Wild Animal so he can take 4+ Move actions without screwing you. RO makes one-turning super easy, btw. Second block on Frenzy drives into a SS GR, and it's off to the races. At that point even a pow is okay because the GR is across scrimmage next to another D-lineman, so it's just a diagonal block with another guy. Easiest chain-score there is with a rookie team.

3) Preferred builds: here's My starting build (all formats). At low value Apoth is for any KO or BH, let anything worse go. You might forgo a KO Apoth if it doesn't happen in the first 3-4 turns, esp if you have any reserves. If you go into halftime with your Apoth, you either got really lucky or you're doing it wrong (at low value, anyway: later on you can save it for stars). In TV-based formats I forgo the RO and eventually go for 4 GR, 2 Blitzers, 6 Linerats. One GR is a sacker, one is a retriever/carrier/passer, two are cogs/outlets with Block/SS. Stormvermin are all kill, Guard is for Linerats. There are 3 normal first skills for linerats. #1 gets Kick, #2 gets Dirty Player, everyone else gets Wrestle. Doubles is Guard, follow with Block or Wrestle. Doubles after Kick or DP is Dodge for spam power. Second normals after Kick is DP, second normal after DP is Wrestle (or Kick if you need a new one). In a league I try to get a Rat Ogre early, because Guard is precious and Frenzy + Skaven = evil. If you find yourself stuck at/below 11, a Thrower is a decent hire in place of the fourth GR*, shave a little TV when he hits Leader at 6 SPP.

4) Political themes, it depends on your bent. I went through a phase of making fun teams themed around my contempt for a certain American political party. I have a hard time not wearing it on my sleeve and still being funny: that's not an easy task. Since some of my best Blood Bowl friends are, well, you know, I decided to find other themes when I got tired of those teams and/or when they crashed. So you'll have to figure out where to go based on your own opinions.

5) There are so many great Skaven models. My favorites for pure character are Gaspez Topi. But my favorite of all is a kit-bashed squad of Mordheim or WFB conversions.

* I like 3 GRs on the pitch at a time. That means I like to carry 4 and 12+ men. In a league, I like 14 with a RO and a Thrower. In a matching format, 12 with neither, or 11 with a Thrower and only 3 GR.

[DixonCider]

played skaven at Spike. was so fun. have never played them in a league setting though

[Digger Goreman]

Cheese, what a timmy fest....