Discuss Fantasy football-style board games - GW's Blood Bowl, Impact!'s Elfball, Privateer Press' Grind, Heresy's Deathball, etc. THIS IS NOT AN NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL SITE!
I took Guard on him. I just had my match against Skaven.
I thought the 8 CAS against the Norse team 2 matchdays ago was bad, but it pales in comparison to today.
I won 2:1 and the CAS-count was 11-0. 7 of those CAS went to my MP/PO Herald. He used his Inducements for a Loner, Wizard, 2 Babes and 2 Apoths. He received but he positions his thrower badly and I got the ball from him so I was able to score the first TD in turn 8. I got too confident and offensive because I had already decimated his team quite a bit. He used the Wizard to down my Ballcarrier and managed to score in the same turn.
After that his Inducements were spent and I could cage my way through to the 2:1. I dont like stalling so after I scored he had 2 turns for the draw and nearly pulled it off. In the end his lack of players (he only had 5 left) saved me. I downed the Gutterrunner and secured the ball.
I got 3 LVL-Ups out of the game.
My Cultist with Leader, Block got a normal roll. I would like more Tackle but I think in the long run I think Dauntless might be better. This season I dont have any opponents where I need Dauntless anymore, but it is likely that will change next season. What would you pick?
Due to his amazing performance my Herald with MB, PO and JU also got a normal roll. I think it is time now to give him Block. I got really lucky that he made it this far and I think Block will be needed ^^ Would you agree?
The last up is on a Cultist with Block. I got an 11 again. So now I have to decide if I want to take the AGI. I think I shouldnt pass it up. What are your thoughts?
@Khrage, I usually try to go for the 2:1 grind as well, but it usually does not really work out in the traditional way although the end result often is 2:1 Thanks to Frenzy you can open up a lot of ways and if your opponent doesnt position for it, surprising action are possible ^^ It also is really hard to Cage with Khorne I think. your players just cant keep out of contact.
I think dauntless could serve you well in the future as you suggest. If you plan to play the team long term you do need to take a long term approach at the skills and not just pick based on your upcoming schedule. I also think Fend is a great skill with khorne as it leave the player free to add an assist on someone else's frenzy issues. Every team obviously needs some tackle, but frenzy is a poor man's tackle (especially if you have some wrestle) so you may not need as much with khorne as you do on other teams.
I'd definitely go block on the herald, though I think it is not as surprising as you think that you were able to make it that long without. I assume you've piled on a lot, and used juggernaut to cover your blitzes.
I think you must take the agility. The team benefits a lot of a few extra mobile players, not to mention you can never count on the other ag boosted player(s) to survive.
That Herald has earned Block, IMHO, to give him some protection. And a freaking Gold Star. 7 in a game is marvelous.
I think Dauntless or Tackle are good choices, though I am hesitant to have your Leader cultist in the scrum which is what Dauntless would imply. Would probably personally go Tackle and keep him back, though I also like Fend on him for the reasons Neverworking suggests.
Would also go ahead and take the agility. Another thing that Khorne needs to be somewhat more reliable (yeah, Khorne and reliable don't really belong in the same sentence though).
Yeah, can't really call it a 2:1 Grind plan. Just too hard to keep a cage and too hard to keep out of contact with your guys. And a well played agility team can reposition to make the frenzy blocks extremely hazardous, making the "grind" much less effective.
My usual is more like a 1:0 then the 2:1 as well, as I might stop a drive, but be unable to capitalize on the stop to pop the ball free and get the TD, and the 6 move really hurt me last season. I want to say that I lost 3-4 TDs in an 11 game season due to failed GFIs to get in the endzone on turn 8 or 16. It is one of the reasons I am big on any move boosts on this team. But the counter side is that the opponent can't rely on much of his own usual strategies because Khorne usually shoots them to hell as well!
Reason:''
"I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows!"
Bart Simpson
I played my first game with a Bloodthirster, a Merc with M-Blow. He was outstanding, therefore I recognise that it is almost certainly better to start with one in a league. The downside, of course, is that the team may underperform in its first few games (with no Bloodthirster but 3 RR, my team seemingly "overperformed" in its first few games, before starting to struggle). Starting with a Bloodthirster also brings hard roster choices, mainly whether to manage with only 2 RR (+Leader) and 13 players (+Apoth). Both a bit light.
Playing against higher TV Humans, I was robbed when I failed a GFI to the end zone (1,1). The ball carrier (a Pit Fighter with S-Hands) CAS'd himself of course, -AV. A TD would have given me an unassailable 2-0 lead, as I had managed a turnover score in the first half, thanks to the Bloodthirster. My opponent could not fail with any dodges or ball handling, and scored on turn 16 to tie the game at 1-1. He then won the kick-off in extra time, and scored in similar fashion to win the game. This was the semi-final of a little cup, I was lucky to win the previous round.
I have given an MVP to my Pit Fighter with Leader, giving him Kick. We will see how he gets on...
it occurs to me that the best candidates for Guard are the Bloodletters, however, I don't know if I have the courage to give Guard to them as first skill (that might be the best route, I am unsure how best to test it). Slightly counter-intuitive, but who knows... It would enable the Heralds to develop in standard slayer fashion, Block, M-Blow, etc..
The team is struggling for numbers. Starting with 13 players (including the Bloodthirster), I had just 10 players for extra time. 1 more player might well have made the difference.
Not going to play Khorne anytime soon, and havn't even looked decently at the team yet... but appreciate the pondering, testing and sharing of experience!
Thx Smeborg!
Our main league started last night, we have 20 players in 2 divisions, all rookie teams. My Khorne team did well, winning a tight game against Necros 3-2 (CAS: 2-2). Starting team: Bloodthirster, 4 Bloodletters, 6 Pit Fighters, 2RR. I give some gory details to illustrate a point:
- 1st drive: won the kick, received, Sweltering Heat, got a touchback, ran the ball in as quickly as I could (3 turns). Nearly got sacked and had to "roll some dice" on the 3rd turn in order to get there. One more turn and my players would have been swarmed by his many MA4 players. 1-0.
- 2nd drive: 8 players vs. 8. I managed to press my opponent, eventually he made a Long Bomb to a Werewolf, it was inaccurate but scattered 3 squares towards my end zone. 19 squares for a pass, not bad. The Bloodthirster who should have blitzed the Werewolf (now poised to score) rolled a 1 for Wild Animal, after that only one player was able to mark the Wolf (who duly scored). 1-1.
- 3rd drive: a 2-turner. I get a favourable scatter (centre of the LoS), push a good many players upfield, and score on turn 8 with a dodge, GFI, hand-off, GFI. 2-1.
- 4th drive: my opponent gets a riot, forcing me to defend furiously (I had set up for a 1-turn defense). The defense holds. 2-1 to me at half time.
- 2nd half, 1st drive: I kick and push a Pit Fighter into scoring position on turn 1. I then get a lucky turnover (double skulls on a re-rolled block), and manage to get the ball to the waiting Pit Fighter, who scores on my turn 2 (pick-up, GFI, hand-off, GFI, GFI). 3-1.
- 2nd half, 2nd drive: my opponent pushes a Wolf well forward into my half, with the ball. The Bloodthirster (who should have sacked him) again rolls a 1 for Wild Animal. I mark the Wolf with 3 players, but he escapes and scores on turn 3. 3-2.
- 2nd half, 3rd and last drive. Tense, I am down on numbers (8 vs. 10), and to make matters worse, a riot extends the game (6 turns each left). However, I manage to surf a player, and get some timely stuns and KOs to restore parity of numbers. With both Wolves in the dugout, my chances improve greatly, but with no RRs left, I play conservatively and cage the ball (I have just enough players to do this). A good chance to score at the end fails when the Bloodthirster again rolls a 1 for Wild Animal. Although the cage becomes exposed, my opponent is down to his last AG3 player (a Wight) and does not have the means to score. The longest drive of the match, and the only scoreless one.
My prior experience with Khorne, although limited, has stood me in good stead. The main point is that Khorne cannot stall, but neither can their opponents. This was the main driver behind my style of play in this match (score quickly when able to, press aggresively in defense and force the opponent to score quickly). A long way from your typical bash team strategy. The turnover score by the Pit Fighter (1st drive of the second half) was a typical piece of "planned" Khorne opportunism (it can be very hard for Khorne to hold onto turnover ball, typically most of their players are out of position).
The Bloodthirster was a mixture of good and tiresome. He rolled seven 1s for Wild Animal, 3 of these were important (TDs might have been prevented or scored). On the plus side, the Bloodthirster helped to force my opponent to score quickly, and had an important psychological influence. On the 8 turns when he was not Wild, he got 2 crowd-surfs, 1 KO and 1 stun (a decent return). But no SPPs.
18 SPPs is a great return for a first match. I gave the MVP and Leader to a Pit Fighter. 1 Pit Fighter was killed outright and is now a Zombie. So now I have a JourneyFighter, but at least I won enough gold to buy an Apoth. I will try to get smart with the skilling up of players (Bloodletters with 3 and 2 SPPs, Pit Fighters with 5 and 8 SPPs), it's very possible with this team, as anyone except the Bloodthirster can be set up with a chance to score a TD.
Very nice! I agree with the idea that Khorne can't stall effectively, but they make it hard for opponents to stall as well, and I think its a good mindset. And don't underestimate what the Bloodthirster is doing, mentally, to your opponent. People freaking hate that guy.
I am not doing as well with my current Khorne Team. Have a nice spread of skills, Two Block, Guard Heralds, A MB, Guard Blood Thirster, and a handful of skill ups on my pitfighters (including a 4 ag, a block, tackle, a block, leader, etc), but my Bloodletters are really behind the curve. I have one Blodger, 1 with Block and +1 Ag, and one with Sure Hands (before I rolled any +ags and he hasn't skilled since). I have enough for a rookie Blood Letter, but considering letting my sure hands skill up before purchasing another.
Sadly my 4 AG Bloodletter with Block just got a -1 move. I am kind of torn on whether to keep him or not. Failed both the apoth roll and the regen roll on him (which is a theme with my Bloodletters, actually), and now he is stuck out. I was going to gear him up as a scoring threat, but 5 move kind of nixes that idea a bit.
Reason:''
"I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows!"
Bart Simpson
Khrage wrote:And don't underestimate what the Bloodthirster is doing, mentally, to your opponent. People freaking hate that guy.
Yeah, I noticed this week's opponent would count the squares from the Bloodthirster when positioning his more precious players, to keep them out of range. I like it!
Regarding the Bloodletters, my previous experience is that the team plays better when they have 4 of them. This is because they are the only non-Frenzy players, thus they can do things either more safely or without getting out of position. I started a team previously with only 3 Bloodletters, there was a noticeable improvement in the way the team handled itself after I bought the 4th.
I do not normally use the Apoth on Bloodletters, I "rely" har har on their Regen, but no doubt I would have been tempted to use the Apoth on an AG4 Bloodletter.
My plan is to make the first Bloodletter to skill up into a Runner (S-Hands, Dodge, Block). My experience is somewhat different to yours, in that the Bloodletters seem to get plenty of SPPs. They seem also to spend a lot of time off the pitch, some opponents will target their AV7, this also means they suffer attrition and consequent loss of precious SPPs. This would appear to be a characteristic of the team, I'm not sure much can be done about it other than fielding a Bloodthirster. And I like to spread the SPPs around so that the loss of 1 or 2 players does not hurt too much.
- 1st drive: won the kick, received, Sweltering Heat, got a touchback, ran the ball in as quickly as I could (3 turns). Nearly got sacked and had to "roll some dice" on the 3rd turn in order to get there. One more turn and my players would have been swarmed by his many MA4 players. 1-0.
(...)
You got a touchback. Out of curiosity, who do you choose to carry the ball?
I would have been tempted to use the Bloodthirster...
MKL wrote:You got a touchback. Out of curiosity, who do you choose to carry the ball?
I would have been tempted to use the Bloodthirster...
It didn't occur to me to give the ball to the Bloodthirster. I gave it to a Bloodletter, the one who was poised to be the Runner anyway (centre of my half). The Bloodthirster was poised to take lots of blitzes, I don't see how I could have got to the end zone with him carrying the ball, he would need to take a blitz every turn in order to move semi-reliably downfield. Hole-punching by him would be very predictable, he would need to run backwards after punching a hole, he would be easy to trap with Frenzy forcing him into tackle zones (or if he failed to knock someone over). If he were to take a blitz action without blocking, then forward movement would not be possible against a simple linear defense.
My experience of handling the ball with other Big Guys is bad, this is probably why it did not occur to me. It's a very different situation fo (say) an intercept.
I have tried getting a TD with a Bloodthirster maybe 3 or 4 times. It has worked once. Not only do you have to rely on blitz's to move and fail them 1/6 times, a 2die uphill block on the Bloodthirster is usually the first approach by an opponent with a block player. If the ball bounces into his square and he rolls high enough to catch it, give it a try, but don't expect to succeed. When you do though, he flies up into the sky after the TD so its kind of cool at least.
Reason:''
"I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows!"
Bart Simpson
I have some questions for all you brave Khorne coaches out there.
1. TV. How do you contain the TV of the team? A full roster of 14 players and 3 RRs comes to a base TV of 136, too high IMO in most leagues. I am thinking this time of taking only 2 RR and 13 players, but adding 1AC/1CL, for a base TV of 125. Of course that seems a RR and a player short, but I don't fancy facing inducements such as the Wizard.
2. Grab. Has anyone tried it on 2 or 3 Bloodletters (could be taken as early as second skill after Block)? Seems like a luxury, but it would bring a multiplier effect with all that Frenzy/Horns/Jugs.
3. Attrition. What is your experience with loss of players, especially skilled ones? It seems to me on first acquaintance that the Khorne team has nicely rounded development (lots of players can get to, say, 2 skills), but that this is balanced by relatively high attrition. Some other teams have this syndrome (DEs for example).
Smeborg wrote:I have some questions for all you brave Khorne coaches out there.
1. TV. How do you contain the TV of the team? A full roster of 14 players and 3 RRs comes to a base TV of 136, too high IMO in most leagues. I am thinking this time of taking only 2 RR and 13 players, but adding 1AC/1CL, for a base TV of 125. Of course that seems a RR and a player short, but I don't fancy facing inducements such as the Wizard.
2. Grab. Has anyone tried it on 2 or 3 Bloodletters (could be taken as early as second skill after Block)? Seems like a luxury, but it would bring a multiplier effect with all that Frenzy/Horns/Jugs.
3. Attrition. What is your experience with loss of players, especially skilled ones? It seems to me on first acquaintance that the Khorne team has nicely rounded development (lots of players can get to, say, 2 skills), but that this is balanced by relatively high attrition. Some other teams have this syndrome (DEs for example).
All the best.
Hi Smeborg,
1.TV is a real problem. My team is at 203(0) atm with 13players, 3RR and 1AC/1CL. I already thought about dropping a RR. By now, most of my players have Block + I have a Leader. There are times when I need the 4RR but often I can manage with 3. It might work, but I wouldnt try it with a not so well developed team.
2. I dont have Grab yet, but I am thinking about it as the next skill for 2 of my Bloodletters (Blodge, Guard). I am torn between Grab and SS. I think Grab might be really useful in different ways. You could open up new paths or set up enemy players for a surf. It could be really nice in combination with all the Frenzy and I will probably try it on at least 1 Bloodletter.
3. I think it really depends on the role and position of the player. I lost my Cultist with SureHands (and Accurate I think) right before my match against Woodelves. That really had a big impact on how I had to play. Otherwise I have been pretty lucky. I lost mostly players with no or only one skill. I think it might be pretty hard to protect all your key players, since khorne tends to be in contact a lot. I am not sure yet on how to deal with the loss of one of my better players since they all really feel needed by now to stand a chance.
I have another question for all you right-thinking Khorne fans: have you tried Kick on the team? It seems to me that it might work well, since Khorne like to spread the play, it seems a classic way to cause problems for the opponent. However, it seems the Pit Fighters are a classic case of too many skills chasing too few slots! On the plus side, no shortage of development problems for the "thinking coach", sigh.
Last night's game felt like my luckiest win in 15 years of playing BB (vs. near-rookie Lizards, 11 players and 1 skill like me).
Turn 16, nil-nil, I am down to 4 players, 2 are out of the play. The Bloodthirster takes a blitz in lieu of a block, gets just enough (skull, both down) to crowdsurf a Skink from the end zone. This clears a rookie Pit Fighter to pick up the ball in the end zone. The pick-up fails, but the ball scatters sideways to the waiting Bloodthirster who catches it on a natural 6. Result: 1-0 (CAS: 4-6).
There was much mayhem before that. I lost the kick-off roll, and saw my team fly into the dugout (4 CAS and a KO in the first 5 turns). The Bloodthirster rolled a 1 for Wild Animal on the first turn, but redeemed himself after that, sacking the ball carrier on turn 3 to create a long scramble. I got some stuns, a KO and a CAS to try and maintain parity of numbers, but to no avail. I gained the ball but immediately rolled 1,1 when going-for-it with the ball carrier. Recovering the ball a second time in traffic, an attempted B-S pass went awry (1 = fumble). Time for a little luck on my part, my opponent could not pick up the ball, failed some dodges, and and was running out of Skinks. 0-0 at half-time, very fortunate for me.
2nd half, I have 6 players vs.8 against a fast team, I set up to go down one side, the kick is deep and on the wrong side, I suffer an early turnover (re-rolled Pit Fighter block on the LoS), my backfiled is swarmed. Great good fortune follows as my opponent rolls double skulls when trying to bring down the only player who can pick up the ball. I duly pick it up. Turn 11, a Bloodletter clears a Skink out of the way (had to doge first), the Bloodletter with the ball makes a long pass upfield to a waiting (although marked) Pit Fighter. Fumbled, re-rolled to inaccurate, the ball is at least in my opponent's backfield now, several of his players are now out of position. Another prolonged scramble ensues, the Bloodthirster plays a useful part (mainly tying up players), I get lucky with scatters (both teams are pushing players onto the ball). Turn 14, I manage a pick-up and pass to a Pit Fighter in the end zone, he fails the catch. As in the first half, my opponent runs out of Skinks (only 1 left now), this makes a draw likely, as I am still well down on numbers. But I manage to pull off the piece of jam described above on turn 16.
The Bloodthirster was something of a star in this match, as well as the winning TD, he got 2 CAS, 2 KOs and 2 or more stuns. His ability to do this while tying up players was the sole factor enabling me to put up a fight while well down on numbers. His ability to get 3-die blocks on Skinks was handy. He also got quite a lot of attention, and was taken down a few times (this probably worked to my advantage).
The Apoth had his first outing when my Leader (my only skilled player) was crippled (-AV apoth'd to -MA). I hope this is not a sign of things to come. Otherwise I was lucky on the injury distribution, 1 crippled, 1 MNG, 4 BH. I have 3 jouneymen now, like a good WE team. Although my opponent got lucky on the CAS front, I gave him many blocks, as I felt obliged to mark his Saurus much of the time.
The Bloodthirster skilled up by himself (7 SPPs in the match) to take M-Blow. A Bloodletter took the MVP and S-Hands (true to plan). He should stand me in good stead while I have to play a game without the hapless Leader.
A very wild game, Khorne are not for the fainthearted. My opponent was a sporting youngster, inexperienced, though far from a rookie. I feel fortunate that I was not playing against a more wily and experienced opponent, I suspect I would have lost. My opponent was far from displeased, he got 6 CAS after all, and I think 3 more Saurus skilled up.
SunDevil may like to know that the die used to catch the ball by the Bloodthirster was from 3DB.
Thanks to Frenzy you can open up a lot of ways and if your opponent doesnt position for it, surprising action are possible ^^ It also is really hard to Cage with Khorne I think. your players just cant keep out of contact.
