My 3d Printed miniatures.

[theghr]

Why dont you just start a kickstarter to mold these babies up? The human team is ace, and i like the amazons as well.

[islandtrevor]

Why dont you just start a kickstarter to mold these babies up? The human team is ace, and i like the amazons as well.

As I said there are too many pitfalls for someone at my level. If you look at many of the miniature crowdfunding campaigns that are not by established companies they fail more often than not, this ratio goes up significantly when when the miniatures are not accompanied by an actual game. There is the time you need to devote to a crowdfunding, which takes me away from my actual goal...making models. And not suprisingly there is the issue of GW and their lawyers. I know of two campaigns that were not just shut down but wiped from kickstarted completely by legal threats from GW (meaning kickstarter shut it down not the one who had the campaign), Couple this with the fact that even if I navigate these pitfalls I am now responsible for packaging, shipping, customer support and everything else....again this was not meant to be a career.

Besides....if I wanted to go the molding route I could fund that myself for a single team. As I said before it does me no good to have 50 teams that are cheap if I only sell 1.

I am really not looking for advise on production....I have honestly researched it alot. I am trying to determin what my next step is. If there proves to be a strong demand for my work I will look at alternative production methods like mold injection but I am not so delusional as to think I can just jump into that type of production without first knowing the demand. That is why I asked the questions I asked because it will give me the information I would like so I can decide which route I take from here based on the research I have already done.

Thanks for posting

[theghr]

Besides....if I wanted to go the molding route I could fund that myself for a single team. As I said before it does me no good to have 50 teams that are cheap if I only sell 1.

Allright, but chances are that you would sell at least two if they were cheaper, if one if they are more expensive.

[islandtrevor]

Besides....if I wanted to go the molding route I could fund that myself for a single team. As I said before it does me no good to have 50 teams that are cheap if I only sell 1.

Allright, but chances are that you would sell at least two if they were cheaper, if one if they are more expensive.

The point I was making was if I dont sell enough to cover the cost of having the the molds and teams made then its not worth it. My research has shown to get silicon molds made I would have to sell 50 teams at 50 bucks each to cover all the costs (original prints, mold, casting of 50 teams, packaging and shipping)...only after I sell those 50 teams do I make money. If I decided to use injection molding I would have to sell 200 teams at 40 bucks to make a profit. And these low prices are only because I have made contacts with industry people.

I could also invest in DIY molding and bring those ratios down significanty....but that completely eats any time I have in production...time I want to spend designing.

Another thing to consider is I am still a novice when it comes to 3d modeling. It takes a certain amount of skill to model with molding in mind. For example those humans have a face guard which has a seperation in it...it would not survive mold extraction in its current state. There may be a multitude of other issues for mold ready prints I dont see. I sm not saying I couldnt figure it out but at this time my lack of experience is detrimental.
Thanks again for posting but honestly I have done extensive research into production options

[Steam Ball]

Shapeways guidlines are the 16 and 30 microns but the machines they use are capable of going down to 5 microns....they have printed stuff for me in that detail level and the difference is noticable but not so much as to make the cost worthwhile.

I was not using Shapeways guidelines... I was referencing the technical specs as provided for the printers by the companies that design and sell them. SW run their machines at that (or worse, like FD or the other detail plastics) and they confirmed it in multiple places. If someone told you they can do 5 micron...

[islandtrevor]

Shapeways guidlines are the 16 and 30 microns but the machines they use are capable of going down to 5 microns....they have printed stuff for me in that detail level and the difference is noticable but not so much as to make the cost worthwhile.

I was not using Shapeways guidelines... I was referencing the technical specs as provided for the printers by the companies that design and sell them. SW run their machines at that (or worse, like FD or the other detail plastics) and they confirmed it in multiple places. If someone told you they can do 5 micron...

(edited to correct a previous mistake and to change the tone)

I just reread my previous post and see I had made an error....it was supposed to read 15 microns not 5 (5 micros is cellular levels 15 is thin hair). Meaning that the FUD material can be printed in 15 micron ... with proper know how and access it is possible to surpass the 'official specs' of a machine which have to be verifiable by an outside agency consistantly.

I apologize for the confusion but if you wish to discuss 3d printing technology or the companies that use it I ask that you start a thread. I have a specific goal with this one and I do not wish to be derailed.

[Steam Ball]

Best jump to the , I would use spoiler, but there is no such tag here.

(edited to correct a previous mistake and to change the tone)

I just reread my previous post and see I had made an error....it was supposed to read 15 microns not 5 (5 micros is cellular levels 15 is thin hair). Meaning that the FUD material can be printed in 15 micron ... with proper know how and access it is possible to surpass the 'official specs' of a machine which have to be verifiable by an outside agency consistantly.

I apologize for the confusion but if you wish to discuss 3d printing technology or the companies that use it I ask that you start a thread. I have a specific goal with this one and I do not wish to be derailed.

Is there a toggle somewhere where SW will run a work in a better setting? For how much more? Because so far FUD is 29 micron layers (worse in the other two axis) not 16 (those are the numbers from the machines, HD3500 in UHD/XHD work modes, there is no 15). Customers don't care what the machines can do after "hacking" them down to 15 or when run in 16, but what they will really get as a norm. (No need to reply, they don't offer such "beyond FUD" mode currently, just like they pick orientation as they see fit for every run, no matter how many times it has been requested to be modeller controlable.)

My best advice: open shop and see how it goes by yourself. It doesn't cost any extra money and you already sunk the time into making some models. Maybe you hit gold, maybe you are tail (see the long tail concept). We already told you you're competing against cheaper options of demostrated quality.

[islandtrevor]

My best advice: open shop and see how it goes by yourself. It doesn't cost any extra money and you already sunk the time into making some models. Maybe you hit gold, maybe you are tail (see the long tail concept). We already told you you're competing against cheaper options of demostrated quality.

If you want to know how I got a print done in that detail level send me a message.

I have an open shop and have made some sales. To move forward I asked some specific questions so I knew which direction I wanted to go based on what I learned. You do not like the price. Let move on.

[Madsherman]

My two cents, as I haven't read all of the longer answers.

I have to really really really love a team, in order to accept even 32 mm scale. 35mm is simply too big. I'd rather have 28mm with exaggerated features as that is the norm for BB. And I can tolerate a 32mm mini if it's a ST4 player (like Willys Ulfwereners.)

Also If I may make a suggestion for the models? I really like your posing of the painted human player.. Looks like he is atually moving and not just posing. But for painting purposes, I'f try and make all trims as angular as possible. For example the rims on the shoulderpads are very round.. that makes it hard to freehand a highlight on it. And it's hard to tell, but it looks like the belts are a bit rounded at the edges? I'd go 90 degrees sharp edge on those things, in order to make it easier for the people painting them.

[islandtrevor]

I have to ask how you measure the models. Do you use the traditional scaling system (foot to eye), measure the model in a way to get a standing straight size or if you just straight measure the hunched stance of a model.

I ask because I have not been able to find that many official models that are actually 28mm and only one that is a true 28mm scale(foot to eye).

Please keep in mind that I am not arguing or saying your opinion is wrong its just that I am suprised at those who talk about 28mm models. I mean if you look at the size comparrison I posted in the first picture you can see that my human is only slightly larger than an official human....and mine is standing taller.

In regards to my design both the belt and the pads do indeed have rounded edges. I used the rounded edges to convey a softer material like a cloth belt and padded shoulders (or knees if you notice). Painting a strong edge highlight is not something I would personally think fits those areas. Still it is something to think about. Its not going to happen on the humans as I have already completed the full team and am selling them as we speak. But in future models I might consider harder edges.

[Madsherman]

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that a 3rd ed human player is true 28mm heroic scale. Of course that's a blurry line because of poses, but I'd say the 3rd guy in this photo resembles a human player:



we had this discussion in my sculpting thread as well and although this Igor is proper height, his head and hands are very large, so I'd say he's too big, just because his proportions don't match:

[theghr]

It should be said though that many on this board have come to accept a little bit larger models as almost standard size since its in that size most new third party miniatures comes in. But to make miniatures in Willy size is a mistake, since it not only fully alleniates GW-fundamentalist players, its also not ideal even for people that have accepted a little bit larger models. I seriously dont understand why he does them in that size when its not industry standard. Had he created a game of his own, then sure, but that is not the case.

[Madsherman]

In Willys defense, I'd say the goblin team is close enough:



and the 3D thralls aren't too big AFAIR.. they're just too buff for me anyhoo, back on topic: I'd actually like to see a more sideview comparison on the 3rd ed player vs. your own human player. The pic you have is a bit blurry and from up high.

And cool beans that you want rounded edges on your shoulderpads, but I'd do something to make it a bit more irregular.. maybe some studs or crease lines? right now it just looks too much like a 3d tube.

more of this (shield edges)



less of this

[islandtrevor]

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that a 3rd ed human player is true 28mm heroic scale. Of course that's a blurry line because of poses, but I'd say the 3rd guy in this photo resembles a human player:

we had this discussion in my sculpting thread as well and although this Igor is proper height, his head and hands are very large, so I'd say he's too big, just because his proportions don't match:

When I first started doing this 3 years ago (for myself only at that time) I caused quite alot of confusion because it was rare to find someone who understood that when you say '28mm scale' meant a foot to eye measurement. That is why I pretty much stopped using that description.

As far as your picture representation goes..I would agree that the 3rd edition box set humans are in a 28mm scale (roughly because the throwers are slightly bigger while the linemen are almost exact).

If you wanted a proper scale of my humans I would say they are approx 32mm scale (just a bit under actually but for simplicity it will do). There is only about 1mm difference betweer my linemen and the chaos marauders box set that has become a common BB conversion item. As I said It is a simple resizing to get my models closer to a true 28mm scale with minimal loss in detail. I spoke of how a friend had me scale down models because he too prefered them smaller and he is completely satisfied with them (of course he is my friend so take that with a grain of salt). To me his models looked small and puny....same way I feel about these GW ones...



They are very nice models and I love them but to me they are just too small to enjoy playing with or against while these...



are simply gorgeous and in a size that I can see most detail from across the table.
The reason I say this is because with my current store setup it is a simple process to have my models in both scales without any cost in molds and almost no cost in time.

Whats more at my stage I am able to do this on demand basically. As an example, if someone was to say they love my humans but want them even larger for display or perhaps they want them travel size and dont mind the detail loss I could make them 15mm. All it would take is a simple message to me to get that. This is of course entirely dependent on my current situation....low demand for my models.

Another thing many people seem to worry about it how much space they take up on a traditional board when knocked over. This is of course something to consider. I personally have not found much issue with it as I am in the habit of laying them crossways and they do not hang over much...even when a group is downed. But thats my personal experience and I can easily understand how its frustrating to others to have miniature that dont fit.

Thanks alot for clarifying what you meant by 28mm. When I get my finished product of the humans (my largest team in terms of scale) I will try and get some nice comparrison pics so people can see the difference properly....I think many might be shocked.

[Darkson]

While I don't have anything to say on the sculpting side (no idea how anyone manages it!) I have to say that anything that is in the Willy scale immediately falls down my "want to buy" list, as the size is just to big. GW scale is great, and I wish more 3rd party companies would use it - the details can be good enough and they fit on the pitch fine. If detail is the overriding concern, why not 54mm (Inquisitor) or more, and just get a bigger scale pitch.