Do Dwarves even need a big guy?

Sped 2500 · Post by **Sped 2500** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:59 pm

I do have alot of experiance going against toughened Dwarves. Except for the loss of bonus mvp's and standfirm becoming a trait, dwarves havent lost anything in the current ruleset. Unless those changes have altered dwarves considerably, then even down the line dwarves dont NEED big guys, they may really want them but they dont need them.

First of all I don't believe that any team except the stunts NEEDS a big guy. The only time where you could concievably need a big guy (except the stunts) is when every other team has one, and even then is iffy. No one needs them, however they are fun,and I believe that the dwarves should get Deathrollers instead.

Second...I do believe that Stand Firm becoming a trait is a big loss to the dwarves. It allows them to compensate for lack of agility and hold the line even stronger without having to become super offensive (Might blow/piling on). If Stand Firm were a skill choice I would take it right after guard on any of my longbeards, as it is Mighty Blow will probably be the second choice on standard skill rolls.

Sam

P.S. If anyone has good advice for a starting dwarf team (for when I get around to it) can you point me in a good direction?

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:02 pm

An ogre on a dwarf team looks cool. If this was warhammer, it'd be way out fluff-wise. But BB isn't warhammer, and the dwarf team looks a lot better with a big guy standing in the midst of them.

So I say keep the ogres on dwarf teams. And on the other teams too, except halflings and goblins. Make the trolls just a tad more competitive and you'll see lots of them on orc teams.

Micke

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:06 pm

P.S. If anyone has good advice for a starting dwarf team (for when I get around to it) can you point me in a good direction?

I have always found the left to be a good direction.

Barring that check the Tactics and Team Development section. Plenty of how to start a team.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:26 pm

Toby wrote:Seriously Speaking, if it was up to me I would demmand the Wood Elf team to have:

0-2 Treeman Blocker (no Big Guy RC = Rerolls Allowed), rest stays the same.

This is exactly why it isn't up to you.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:28 pm

One suggestion i would make off hand.
Max blitzers and trollslayers to start.
1 or 2 runners depending on choice.
9 ff
3-4 rerolls

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:09 pm

snotsngrots wrote:
Toby wrote:Seriously Speaking, if it was up to me I would demmand the Wood Elf team to have:

0-2 Treeman Blocker (no Big Guy RC = Rerolls Allowed), rest stays the same.
This is exactly why it isn't up to you.

Come On Snot, I played Human vs. Wood Elf under LRB 1.3 a series of 8 games and I won 7. Those trees are pretty useless they only die slower than the rest...

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:20 pm

snotsngrots wrote: This is exactly why it isn't up to you.

Amen

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:37 pm

So you say Treemen are Powerful ?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:38 pm

wood elves are too good to need 2 treemen is the point

Post by **Thadrin** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:39 pm

Amen.

If we're talking about need, the Wood elves need a tree even less than Dwarfs need an ogre. Our league's top team won a game 7-0 despite sustaining 6-1 cas (the opponent was norse).

We can go on about need and all that around and around if we want. Doesn't change the fact that there ARE too many big guys in Blood bowl, and that their availability without any form of payoff (oooh one less lineman! tragedy.) means every team will eventually have one.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:45 pm

where's the fun in takin' 5 cas every game ?

i played vs. 2 treemen 5 games and only one game both were on the pitch for both halfes; then they lack block, and they cant reroll their blocks.

Am I such an brilliant coach or why did't those trees hurt me at all ?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:48 pm

Toby wrote:Am I such an brilliant coach or why did't those trees hurt me at all ?

Trees don't need to hurt. They just stop elves getting hurt.

Post by **Thadrin** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:54 pm

Toby wrote:where's the fun in takin' 5 cas every game ?

i played vs. 2 treemen 5 games and only one game both were on the pitch for both halfes; then they lack block, and they cant reroll their blocks.

Am I such an brilliant coach or why did't those trees hurt me at all ?

The team in question has been taking a pounding. ..but he racks up good scores. I think the fun is in being able to run rings around everyone else.
We split 8 cas on monday - including his tree SIing my Ogre.

No player can soak up damage like a tree - stand firm to start is hugely powerful when used right.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 5:39 pm

Back to Ogres and Dwarves. At TR 100 to 200 the Dwarves should manhandle any team, including the 4 Black Orcs and accompanying Troll. All of the Dwarf players have Block, this goes a long way towards evening things out, then careful use of those Longbeards with Guard will keep the Dwarven advantage (and let's not forget those 2 Trollslayers). But that's not the debate is it.

The debate is that Dwarves do not need an Ogre. Ok, maybe against Orcs they would like to have one, since Orcs can give Dwarves a lot trouble, but against everyone else an Ogre is just gravy. If the only argument that Dwarf coaches have to keep the Ogre is to deal with Orcs then that is a pretty weak stance...

-Balrog

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:44 pm

so is the reason that orcs and chaos need them against dwarfs, that works both ways