What's the Problem with Deathroller beeing Dwarf Big Guy ?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:39 pm

to be honest it gets sent off on a 7+ so its not like it lasts long if it doesn't get knocked over

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:43 pm

It's not a matter of training with the Deathroller. It's a matter of the Deathroller is driven by a longbeard, who CAN train with the team, and thus gains access to RR's. My understanding is that Big Guys don't get access to RR's is because they are stupid and generally not team players. They turn on their teammates, they don't follow orders, they stand around not knowing what to do, and they are known to eat fellow players. A roller doesn't do any of those things, and neither does the longbeard driving it.

I'm not sure I like the idea of making it's MA 2, but maybe saying it takes two turns to stand it back up again (it's a heavy machine for that driver to push back up and get re-started)... don't know for sure though.

Chris

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:06 am

I think on a knock down the death roller should go into the KO box if he passes the armor roll and on any injury up to KO. At the end of the drive make the penalty roll instead of the KO roll and let him go back in.
Anything higher than a KO should be treated as normal. With a dead result meaning that the DR has been destroyed but the longbeard is still alive.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:58 am

get away from that longbeard thing - the driver is not a blood bowl player, hes some freaking engineer who uses starplayer points to upgrade his mad invention...

OK,
Knock Over = Reserves Box (Maintainance)
Armour Break = Badly Hurt (1D6*10K Repair Cost)

Harder Alternative:
Knock Over = KO Box (Maintainance)

Its not a Secret Weapon any longer, its a Big Guy. There is no Penalty Roll.

btw check the US Online Store, they List the Deathroller as an Big Guy already

^^

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:21 am

The penalty roll is it's negative trait. What's wrong with that?

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:48 am

Oh, btw, I also think that IF there would be a rooky Deathroller, it should have Str6, the current one has Str7, right? All Big Guys lost only one point of Str, including the Treeman, and, yes, the Penalty Roll should definitely Stay On! Maybe reduce his Movement to 3...

R

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:53 am

Absolutely, then penalty roll must stay as the negative trait.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:52 am

I didn't see much of secret weapons on trainable 'lineman' so far, but I don't know whether I like the idea.

A dwarf with a chainsaw, o.k. Wait and see. I want to try this to get a feeling for it before commenting thereon.

But if the death roller counts as the bigguy and may be a permanent addition, just think of this horror scenario: a rookie death roller soon gets a skill and a trait (not too unrealistic IMO): so choose, let's say, block and dodge. Leaves you with ST6, block, dodge, stand firm, ignore tackle zones or break tackle...

You won't lose your roller as suggested with the new secret weapon rules. You will use it on long, grinding, 8 turns lasting drives. Thus, you might have it on the field for a half each game.

What a monster! Yes you might try to knock it over. But how many players do you need? Can each team really try this? Try it with high elves, for example. No tackle on your dauntless elf, two dice in your favor, only a push...rr? Unlucky?

No good idea as a bigguy, so far!

Sputnik

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:34 am

Sputnik mama says "dont start reading on page 4"

Toby wrote:Ogre removed from Dwarf Team and replaced by a Deathroller. ONLY Strength Skills & Traits (Stand Firm, Guard, Multiple Block, Piling On).

Dwarf Machine Rookie 3/5/1/10 Break Tackle, Mighty Blow, Big Guy, Deathroller 160.000 (Strength)

Deathroller:
"Armour Break" wreckes the Machine for the rest of the game. (Roll a D6 to determine the repair cost).
Armour Roll Modifier for the Victim of a "Foul Action" is +6.
"Penalty Roll" 7+
"Starplayer Roll" DOUBLE does NOT allow ANY SKILL, but a TRAIT or a CHARACTERISTICS INCREASE.

If you want the penalty Roll to stay, then I demand the removal of the "Big Guy" Racial Characteristic. (i would like that even way better).

The Penalty roll should be made every time you try to get the machine on the playing field... if it fails, it is not allowed on pitch but you can try again next drive.

Tell me what do you think a ROOKIE Deathroller should cost ?

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:13 am

So the roller will never have block or pro, can't use team rr either?

But may have piling on?? Lay your roller prone....

(I suggest a load of washing machines to be dropped of instead:lol: )

can you foul it then?

When only strength access was suggested for the ogre blockers in the new ogre team, a main argument against that was that you can't get enough skills if you don't roll doubles or a stat increase. This would alpply here as well.

Sputnik

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:17 am

It would only be one player suffering from it instead of a whole team, but Block should be available. Furthermore, the penalty roll should be the same as for other weapons; otherwise there's too much complication and these rules work, so why change them...

I think having an evolving, Rooky Deathroller brings a lot of problems and issues and for that reason alone is a bad idea. I do like the possibility of getting Block on a Deathroller however, I always thought the main weakness of the old stars was that most of them didn't have Block.

R

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:34 am

First of all i think it should not have the "Big Guy" Racial Characteristic, still it is a 0-1 "Monster".
Then Strength Skills & Trait Acces, DOUBLE = you may chose a characteristics increase.

Blocking:
Knock Over = KO
Armour Break = Badly Hurt

There is this Idea of mine to make "Thick Skull" a "Racial Characteristic".
That results in RACE "Dwarf" = RACIAL Characteristic "Thick Skull".
Dwarf Machine = Thick Skull. This results in:

Knock Over = KO
If "Thick Skull" = YES = Stunned
If "Thick Skull" = NO = KO

Of course "Stunned" means miss 1 Turn, "Badly Hurt" means miss rest of the game, and KO takes him to the box where they try to fix the thing.

Piling On:
That should not be a problem. The Deathroller just rolls over the guy. Place it prone to represent the mayhem. Next turn, it needs to "stand up", that means get back on track, cost of 3 Squares. I cant see a Problem.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:41 am

What the original Deathroller is good for is softening up the opposition a bit on 1 or 2 drives, until it is toppled/sent off. Then it returns the next game to do the same.
I think a Rooky Deathroller was developed, it should be aimed at doing the same, so it should a) Be very destructive, b) Be removed from play fast! (Without too much permanent damage done to it).
Before it is sent off/toppled it should ideally have taken out a few opponents, of course.

A Rooky Deathroller should not be the same as any other Rooky Big Guy and should Definitely Not be able to stand itself up.

R

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:45 am

Come On Redfang.
This is just to cover "Piling On"

It's not about a Deathroller "Standing Up".

Take a Human Blitzer minature and put a Deathroller on top of it.
Does this look like anybody can move ? So, to clean that mess up, the Roller looses 3 Squares MA before its next turn.

give it a try

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 12:17 pm

If you knock the roller over, it goes prone and goes off the field! Why? Aha...

If it uses piling on (whatever that means for a machine), it goes prone but may stay? Can you foul it then?

This is just to cover "Piling On"

Too many unnecessary exceptions for nothing!

Take a Human Blitzer minature and put a Deathroller on top of it.
Does this look like anybody can move ?

Jap, the deathroller, and even without 'standing up'

What did you want to cover therewith then? The human blitzer?

Sputnik