I need reasons to convince people that freebooting is good

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:16 am

Okay, here's the problem: The guys I'm about to start a league with won't allow freebooted wizards or Star players. They want them as permanent additions to the roster. I've tried to convince them that wizards are better as freebooters, but they keep saying that's because Norses have the worst wizard (and that's another one, they want to use an article with loads of racial wizards although it cries "broken!!" so loudly that it can almost leave you deaf). I'm trying to convince them the other way round, but I'm going to need help on that. What is your advice, people?

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:37 am

Punch them.

Often.

Then, after the first season, when everything is gone to hell, say "I told you so."

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:01 am

Sushé Wakka wrote:I'm trying to convince them the other way round, but I'm going to need help on that. What is your advice, people?

Tell them to look at the online community (ie JavaBowl and PBeM ... I don't follow NetBowl and TowBowl to comment on those).

In the JavaBowl and PBeM community wizards ONLY come in two flavors:

1) They are freebooted and are not racial in nature (except for the Necromancer, Master Chef, and Runesmith)

2) They are on-pitch spellcasters with racial rules for each team.

I review a lot of online leagues and those are the only two flavors I'm finding in active prospering leagues .... its just a sample, but its a sample that says something to me as it covers about 20 some odd different leagues.

Why is this ... because racial permanent wizards are NOT balanced and they suck .... everyone has realized this and moved to something better. I have two leagues the MBBL (which uses option #1 above) and the MBBL2 (which uses #2 above) ... so I think they both work and are balanced.

I don't know what else to say ... get them to look at whats out there and hope they see the light ... if this doen't work ... go with Dragoonkin's advice.

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:29 am

Make yourself commish then run it like a dictatorship and overrule them.. They'll thank you for it eventually

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:47 am

javabowl doens't allow wizards or star players at the moment

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:48 am

Dragoonkin: I can't punch them. They're more than me and they are in better shape.

Galak: They don't give credit to the online community. In fact, they won't give credit to anything except when:
A) It is their idea
B) It gives them advantage (Guess who wants permament Racial wizards? The orc coach, who can get 2D6 extra squares of movement that ignore anything in its path. Guess who wants permament Starplayers? The human player, who have access to some of the best Starplayers in the game)

Darkson: If I try to impose my rules as a league commish, the only thing I'll achieve ias a league without players and bad relations with my friends.

Don't get me wrong, I thank you for your interest, but I'm afraid I'm going to need something more than this to convince them.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:52 am

Just make the beardiest team you can and win all the time with it

tell them those rules aren't official because they unbalence the game and give advantages to certain teams over the others

StillGas · Post by **StillGas** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:57 am

Convince them that the one truely satisfying star player is the one you make yourself through astute and skillfull coaching?

Other than that I dunno. Sounds to me like they've overdosed on the old Harry Potter and have forgotton the true pleasures of Blood Bowl......

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:02 am

Sounds like your friends are a bunch of beardys then. So in that case 'Dook has it right, out-beardy them and show them way racial wizards and permanent SP were removed.

Oxinotl · Post by **Oxinotl** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:51 am

One great sulution that ive used in all tabletop games ive played is:
Let the opponent use the rule. That way the player who wants to implement the rule will get to feel the punch, and realize that its over-the-top. This works great when someone has special rules for a vehicle in wh40k for instance.
In your case it would mean that you would use the orc wizzy or the human starplayers for a couple of training matches. Use them to the fullest and make your friends understand what it means to face em.

If you cant convince em, try to "nerf" them. Ie, let the orc wizzy be really expensive, or put a limit on the number of starplayers a human team can use etc etc
Good luck

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:57 am

Oh well, maybe I paint them a little worse than they really are. The main problem is that they come from the 3rd Edition School, and they simply don't want to change the game. They want things as they were without noticing that changes make the game better. They do like some things (like the Skill-Traits division or like Sigurd's Injury table), but they feel that making wizards or starplayers freebooters turn them into useless things.
And I can't simply outbeard them. Not because they're beardy (they're not), but because I can't play that way (I love Norses too much to play other team, and I really don't want to make them hate the game).

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:59 am

Well, I think your buggered then, until they come to the correct conclusion themselves

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:03 am

About the "nerfing" thing. I've already found a way to do that with Star Players (they penalize your income, you have a -1 to the winning rolls for every 100,000 gps or fraction used to hire permament Starplayers, and they do suffer permanent injuries); but I'm still looking for some way to do it with the wizards without the Orc Coach (who happens to be the game owner and the league Commish) saying that I do it simply because the Norse team has the worst Spellcaster (the basic one) (and it's funny; he once admitted that the basic sorcerer had the best spells, but know he says the opposite just to support his argument).

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:12 am

I'm wondering, have your friends (and especially league commish) actually read/played using the LRB rules, or are they just basing their dislike on hearsay and such. Or are they, horrors upon horrors, getting it confused with [hush] 4th edition

?

Sushé Wakka · Post by **Sushé Wakka** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:56 pm

First of all, most people haven't read any of the rulebooks. The people who did taught them. The league Commish (well, the OTHER league commish, as we're two on the charge) did read the old book. He also read the 4th edition rules (after I translated them from english to spanish), and I hope he also read the LRb (at least, I made myself sure that he realized that they're different things, but now I'm starting to doubt it). I've tried to make them play them, but they simply say "No, I don't want to". They seem to prefer the heavily modified ruleset we used on our first league (which had to be left prematurely). I am the only one who played both systems and I prefer the LRB, but then again, anytime I say something about it, he'll answer "That's cuz you play Norses".
Ah well, at least it seems that I can bring the Dwarf coach (the Co-commish older brother) to my side, but it's going to be hard to convince the others. My next objective will be the Chaos Coach, but I'll have to speak with him without the Orc Coach and league Co-commish present. Ahh, the good old "divide and conquer".

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I need reasons to convince people that freebooting is good

I need reasons to convince people that freebooting is good

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