Do Dwarves even need a big guy?

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:43 pm

Grumbledook wrote:so is the reason that orcs and chaos need them against dwarfs, that works both ways

I'm all for eliminating the Ogre off the Orc roster too, I use a Troll myself.

-Balrog

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Thu Apr 17, 2003 7:10 am

Chaos does not need an ogre against Dwarfs...

The only time Chaos 'needs' an Ogre (or other Big Guy) is when they play against another team with Str 4 players and a Big Guy. Big Guys on Chaos Teams are handy, though, for racking even more casualties.

R

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 7:35 pm

Is it really reasonable to give Dwarves access to 2 more Blitzers?

I thought the price for all-out Block and Tackle would be the limited access to AG 3 (4 AG 3 vs. 7 AG 2). With 6 AG 3 it ain't the same team (6 AG 3 vs. 5 AG 2), or am I mistaken here?

Present: 4 AG 3 vs. 7 AG 2
Future: 6 AG 3 vs. 5 AG 2

4-7 and 6-5 seem very different to me.

Do Dwarves really need any compensation at all for loosing the Ogre?

corrected the STR/AG mix-up

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 9:00 pm

If you are talking about Agility then I agree. If you are talking about Strength then I think you are mad.

If they get 2 more of anything anything, they should get 2 more troll slayers.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 8:33 am

Mirascael wrote:Is it really reasonable to give Dwarves access to 2 more Blitzers? I thought the price for all-out Block and Tackle would be the limited access to AG 3 (4 AG 3 vs. 7 AG 2). With 6 AG 3 it ain't the same team (6 AG 3 vs. 5 AG 2), or am I mistaken here?

Present: 4 AG 3 vs. 7 AG 2
Future: 6 AG 3 vs. 5 AG 2

4-7 and 6-5 seem very different to me.

Do Dwarves really need any compensation at all for loosing the Ogre?

corrected the STR/AG mix-up

That's one of the reasons why I've always supported more Troll Slayers and not more runners or blitzers.

R

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 9:48 am

Do dwarves even need a big guy?

That's not a reasonable question. The question is why should something be taken away from the dwarves? There is no reason to make that team weaker. Granted, they are not the weakest team around, but not the best either so I see absolutely no reason to weaken them at all.

Snarlton Heston · Post by **Snarlton Heston** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:10 pm

Yes! Yes! Yes!

As a dwarven coach, I often see my team fail to pick up, throw, or catch the damn ball. After bungling this action, I have the agility teams (I HATE ELVES!) fly in and pick up the ball, throw it down the field, and score. Before you blink, the dwarves are down 0-2. Now, add in the great movement (NOT!) of the dwarves and you are praying for a tie.

--DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE OT FORMAT! I'll save that for later!--

After all hope for the tie is gone because of another quick score due to yet another failed action, I concentrate on the Casulaty Cup! I order my players to maim, foul, kick, bite, pile-on, and destroy any agility player in arm's length. Having an Ogre or Big Guy on the pitch is crucial for this!

Snarlton
------------

I'm not prejudice: I hate all elves the same!

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:52 pm

Hate to say it Snarlton but i think u need work on your dwavish game if u have so much trubble with ball handling. All the dwarven team really needs is a double on a blitzer for catch and things should be decent with a cage.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:05 am

Snarlton: In my many games against you, I've noticed that what tends to get you in trouble the most is the lack of protection you give to the ball handler, not the ball handling itself.

Talafar · Post by **Talafar** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:55 pm

The problem I have with big guys, is that if you look at all the rosters in the book they seem relatively balanced when compared with one another (obviously excluding halflings and goblins). So for some teams to get the additional option of Big Guys, and secret weapons for that matter, does not seem very fair at all.
Either everyone should get the extra options or no-one.
So returning to topic, dwarves may as well keep the ogre, unless they are prepared to drop big guys from other teams as well.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:40 pm

Talafar wrote:The problem I have with big guys, is that if you look at all the rosters in the book they seem relatively balanced when compared with one another (obviously excluding halflings and goblins). So for some teams to get the additional option of Big Guys, and secret weapons for that matter, does not seem very fair at all.
Either everyone should get the extra options or no-one.
So returning to topic, dwarves may as well keep the ogre, unless they are prepared to drop big guys from other teams as well.

Sorry that logic doesn't work at all for me. If a player or rule is balanced unto itself that its introduction into some teams but not others doesn't automatically create imbalance.

Example:

Lets say that we agree that Dark Elves and High Elves are balanced in the LRB. Now I want to add a Harpy to the Dark Elf team as a house rule.
( http://www.midgardbb.com/GWTeams/DarkElves.html ). He's ST 4 with Claw ... that's pretty good on the surface and would appear to be an unbalanced addition to the DEs that will make them better than the HEs. However, you give the Harpy a nega-trait and an AV 7 armour. Now a DE team with a harpy isn't necessarily better than one without. IE adding the rule/player did not improve the power of the team.

This is the flaw I find in your argument. Other than Ogres, I really don't see Big Guys or Secret Weapons as things that make teams BETTER just that they are the same with different play styles. I've already made it clear that I have no attachment to Ogres as Big Guy choices outside of the Human team and 2 of the Mixed Race teams.

Galak

Talafar · Post by **Talafar** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:03 pm

Well I guess it varies from team-to-team. But as you say, ogres are very good (and I feel an advantage). Also some teams (e.g orcs) get quite a benefit from including a big guy, in that they get more hitting power, and also the option to do emergency one turn TD's through TTM.
It could also be argued that any extra choices are advantages, as they allow you to make your "final" 16 man team better. I would much rather a Troll to an orc linesman, or a goblin with chainsaw to a goblin.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:17 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Now a DE team with a harpy isn't necessarily better than one without.

But a DE roster with a Harpy is better than a DE roster without a harpy. Just having the harpy available improves the DE roster.

Post by **Thadrin** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:19 pm

So how about the Harpy occupying a Blitzer slot...

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:24 pm

Thadrin wrote:So how about the Harpy occupying a Blitzer slot...

That's what I'm calling for also.

Talk Fantasy Football

Do Dwarves even need a big guy?

Do dwarfs need a big guy?