Which Halfling team is more capable of winning?

[Thetian]

Team A is the more powerful team. In a league that allows starplayers, even more so. Ogres are much better than treemen. Bonehead is the weakest nega-trait.

Team B has a kicker that is only useful if the kicking rules become official and widely accepted. The MC does steal rerolls. That's always fun to watch your opponent cringe when you roll the die. Especially for free. Though, in my experience with 'flings, the only times you reroll anything is when you fail a check you already don't have a skill for. IE passes,catches,GFI's. Unfortunately, 'flings spend more time dodging and treemen blocking. You can't use team rerolls for these. I had a 'fling team with 4 rerolls and NEVER once used all of them in a single half. My turns always ending in a failed dodge reroll or a treeman fumbling a TTM or a double-skull block.

[Dangerous Dave]

I agree with Balrog - I feel the new version of Take Root is very negative. Of course Pro should help overcome but since there are no rerolls....I agree we need an on pitch version... but I feel that there should be some way of getting the trees going again - say a 6 on a d6 rolled each turn.

So I strongly go for A - Ogres are far superior in terms of being in the game, movement and ag.


Dave

[Dark Lord (retired)]

dark lord who was that aimed at, you got me confused?

It was aimed at Galak. The very teams he listed are not the teams we discussed. I have told him over and over again that the rules I mentioned were the "pre-BBRC fix" rules, not the rules after they were fixed.
Sure the team he listed is worse...because the rules he suggested were redone to keep the flings in line. He's all upset becuase I said that he has suggested things to improve his halflings. Oh no, not Galak. I even went out my way to say that I don't think it was intentional and that he's just doing what everyone does. But I guess that is too much to bear. He would never want to be common. He never suggested a much more improved version of the on pitch take root. And his version of the permanent halfling master chef was apparently much worse than the version getting tested...yeah right.

Yeah, and I don't have an ogre on my dwarf teams.

[GalakStarscraper]

Just for record.

I left Dark Lord's name out of all my posts on purpose.

Also DL and I had a misunderstanding.

I freely admit that I've suggested improvement to the team that were better than the Team B over the last several months. However because of Pariah's comments before he left, I changed my mind and agreed with lesser versions of these items.

When DL started discussing Flings with me, he thought I still personally believed that my old ideas were the way to go. Fact is Pariah's comments from months ago had convinced me that they were not. He didn't realize this and it wasn't until the middle of today that I realized that his comments were based on my old ideas and not my new ones.

So if the debate between DL and I was whether the LRB team or my old proposed team was better. I freely openly and publically conceed that my the combination of my old suggests was too d*mn good and had no place being considered. Thankfully Pariah insights way back helped me realize this. The Team B is where I think the team should be.

I didn't realize that DL and I were discussing two entirely different Team B's last night.

Like I said ... I freely admit that my old ideas were cr*p and that it was good Pariah was around to help me see that.

Finally, I have really enjoyed reading the discussion about comparing the 2 teams .... lot of good reading.

Galak

[Balrog]

I agree with Balrog - I feel the new version of Take Root is very negative. Of course Pro should help overcome but since there are no rerolls....I agree we need an on pitch version... but I feel that there should be some way of getting the trees going again - say a 6 on a d6 rolled each turn.

What about just make it so that after they take root their MA becomes 0, but they keep their tackle zone and everything else?

-Balrog

[Toby]

let treemen loose big guy.

[GalakStarscraper]

I agree with Balrog - I feel the new version of Take Root is very negative. Of course Pro should help overcome but since there are no rerolls....I agree we need an on pitch version... but I feel that there should be some way of getting the trees going again - say a 6 on a d6 rolled each turn.
Dave

Okay ... I know certain folks hate the numbers, but a Treeman with Pro on a four drive 4 turn each game will Treeman loses about 6.5 turns a game. Compare this to the 8 turns if they don't show. Plus you get the advantage of the player actually always being there to opening bell. Yeah it really negative ... but I've never been more grateful that my match against SBG right now with the Guard Piling On Dwarves... my Trees took massive hits on the opening kickoff ... the one fling was killed ... if I had old Take Root and had blown the opening rolls ... than 3 Flings would have been on the LOS.

Yes, its a big negative ... but Flings are not supposed to be competitive and just having them show up at the beginning of each game is a huge survival change to the team. It doesn't make them win more games, but it does help keep them from getting destroyed for the old 1 in 4 both trees miss the first half and that's leg up enough for me.

Galak

[Dark Lord (retired)]

And after all this the only point I was trying to make was that you have suggested several improvements for the team that you play. It means you are not only biased but human. The actual discussion was not about the balance of halflings at all.

[banging head against wall]It's like talking to my 7th grade class! Cripes! [/banging head against wall]

[Colin]

[banging head against wall]It's like talking to my 7th grade class! Cripes! [/banging head against wall]

You teach!!?? *cringe*

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Student teach.

Possibly and explaination for my lack of patience?

[Colin]

Are you teaching your pupils about the Dark Side??

[Dark Lord (retired)]

I think it's cool that skating is popular again. I just sold a set of trucks to one of my students for 20 bucks. They are hillarious. So smart and yet so stupid at the same time...hmmn. Sounds familiar.

[Balrog]

Galak, if the Treeman keeps his tackle zone and ability to throw blocks (but not follow up) then I am all for the on-pitch take root. The creation of a bizarre "void" square seems flaky to me.

-Balrog

[GalakStarscraper]

Galak, if the Treeman keeps his tackle zone and ability to throw blocks (but not follow up) then I am all for the on-pitch take root. The creation of a bizarre "void" square seems flaky to me.

-Balrog

However it matches perfectly with the descriptions of the Treeman in the big BB Mag article on how they act.

There are mutliple references to Treeman planting themselves into the pitch and standing them unmoving while they nap, get lost in thought, etc.

Plus Pariah pointed out correctfully a while back that your idea would be a serious upgrade to the Treeman for the Halfling team, and personally I agree that its too much of an upgrade to the team. Changes to the Halfling team should make the team more interesting fun to play without making them better.

I could see the Take Root ending if they are knocked down, but the goal was to keep the nega-trait really simple. ... ie less words in the rules=more.

Galak

[Zombie]

Hard to tell. The ogre loss is a big deal, especially if take root is made to suck like you suggest. However, the master chef in version B is grossely overpowered. I'd say they're about equal.