Why fouling and crowd cas should be given spps again

[wesleytj]

It's bad because it would produce coaches who do nothing but foul and don't care about the win.

those coaches still exist either way, and what difference does it make? they're easy wins, especially now!

[Sushé Wakka]

In both those versions of the game, fouling is still very much worth it. Try it, you'll see. Even with the ref watching you.

Well, it may be that I still haven't found the moment where fouling is remotely useful for the game I'm making. In the odd 20 games I played with LRB (or something like it, because my mates at tabletop gaming can't stand the LRB and modify half the book) I onlyh found fouling near useful once: after my Troll in the Chaos Dwarf team killed a Rat Ogre, the rat was apothecaried. Then a hobgoblin came and fouled it, stunning the rat.
With Norses, they're either blocking, blitzing, handing off or running the ball (and sometimes, they make that odd pass), so I have no players left for fouling.

[roysorlie]

FOuling can be very useful.

Especially for weak teams.
Pick out the big guy, dauntless him to the ground, surround him with players and a dirty, and hey presto, and average roll will have him knocked out, slightly above average, will have him injured.

That's useful.

Also, if a wood elf catcher, or a gutterrunner, is way down your field half, and you manage to block him, but not stun him. But if he get's up, he will likely score. fouling him would remove that risk for an entire turn, (if not for the game)

That's even more useful.

Also, the very fact that removing enough of your opponents players from the pitch (usually important ones) Will cripple your opponents game, and he has to improvise alot, and without many of his key players.

Useful.

[Sixpack595]

I also play 3 other teams, my Orcs are bruisers like they should be. Elves and Skaven can win with half their team dead and injured. A OTSer only needs a couple 2+ rolls with rerolls and 1 or 2 push results. A Basher team needs enough to cage up, bust holes etc. I think you should reward players that make an effort to kill the high SPP guys who cause a need for a crap rule like ageing.

So apparently you don't care much about winning anyhow.

The guys who play to kill do it with or without SPPs.

I would rather it stays that way, coaches should be rewarded for making an effort to win the game not just batter the opposition.

Besides, its better cause it increases player turnover. I'd rather see my bad ass Gobbo get killed by fouls than age.

Trouble is it increases player turnover for teams that suffer from this anyway more than it does for teams that don't have too much of a problem.

Orc teams generally don't have a player turnover problem. Try playing a Skaven team and I doubt you'll be looking for a higher casulty rate.

[Grumbledook]

they are rewarded by the high spp player being dead

[Snarlton Heston]

Wesley wrote, "...those coaches still exist either way, and what difference does it make? they're easy wins, especially now!"

I believe no win is easy in BB!

Snarlton Heston
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Victory always has a price! At what price is victory worth to you?

[Munkey]

Grumbledook beat me to it - injuring/killing the other player is reward enough.

I'm not saying that bashing teams shouldn't be able to cause casuties, they quite clearly can at the moment and if fouling is part of the game plan then fair play, but...

a) I prefer not to see bashing with no intent to score or attempt to win rewarded.

b) Fouling players off the pitch makes it easier to score, etc. As stated above there is no need for any additional reward to the player for doing this.

In essence fouling is quite powerful enough now and those players who are incluned to use it already do so (so the benefits must be apparent).

If your Orcs can play in this style and win what need is there for them to get additional SPPs for doing so?

[BlanchPrez]

I've decided to take the possibly suicidal plung, and jump into this debate. I've thought about this for a long time, and read through many of the arguments presented here. I participated in the Fouling Wars of 3rd Edition, but I haven't let that influence my judgement here.

In my current league, fouling is used for purely tactical advantage (for examples of such fouling, see Roysorlie's post above). Now, if we were to add SPP's to the mix, fouling would change. I'd be more inclined to foul at the end of a turn just to pick up some SPP's for that lineman, with no real tactical advantage to the move. Other's in my league would do the same. While I have no doubt that the fouling wars would not repeat themselves, fouling would become less of a tactical move and instead become a cheep, almost assured way of getting SPP's.

Now, the biggest problem I have with this is the same problem I had with it in 3rd edition. When you award SPP's for fouling, the best player on your team ends up being the guy not playing the game, but kicking players that are down. That doesn't make much sense to me. I'd much rather have the best player be the guy making all the touchdowns.

Chris

[Snarlton Heston]

I agree with Chris's third paragraph: I don't want the all star team made up of the league's 11 dirtiest players!

This is why I suggested that the DP does not gain SPPs for fouling. Anyone else that fouls can recieve them.

Snarlton Heston
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New Skill "Elf Hater" -- it adds +10 to injury AND armor rolls!

[Sixpack595]

Good point, drop SPPs for TDs too, they are rewarded by the score.

they are rewarded by the high spp player being dead