Necromancy Team Observations

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 8:04 am

I have played five games with my Necromancy team so far. I am not going to call myself an authority but I thought it would be good to put up a few observations to be picked apart and analyzed by the gang at large.

1) Werewolves are too powerful in the low TRs.

I've used a solitary Werewolf for one game. Naturally, this is not long enough of a test time but his MA 8 addition to the team, along with RSF, has him acting as a one player wrecking ball. He gets the ball, he kills the opposing team. His speed alone changed the entire look of my team. I'm not so sure that the lack of regeneration is going to be a huge detriment for him because he starts as a star with his skill choices.

Anything else he gets is pure gold. Heck, in this one game he has played, he caused two injuries and had a touchdown. After rolling doubles, I've given him Piling On. A player that now gets +3/+2 on a block with only one skill? I think I'm going to set casualty records with him.

2) Ghouls have become unnessesary; there is too much AG 3 on the team.

With four Wights, two Werewolves, and two Ghouls, this has become a star-dominated team. Having such cheap line-grunts, an Undead player can start with a lot of AG 3. Any ball handling problems the original Undead team had are gone. Heck, with my current roster, I'm going to have to fire current players just to make room for the Ghouls on my roster when I can afford them.

3) There are too many position players, period.

4 Wights
2 Flesh Golems
2 Ghouls
2 Werewolves

This means I flesh out the rest of my team with six zombies. Six zombies?! Having only six of them on the team and, in the long run, only three on the pitch completely takes away the old Undead feel of the team. The Flesh Golems do such a spectacular job of soaking up damage with S4 and Stand Firm that Zombies really find themselves out of place on the team.

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My opinions are, naturally, subject to change. I've had some luck thus far but I have never once felt threatened in a game, except for my sole match against Chaos. The reason I did not beat them was because of how I started my team and I only had one AG 3 player on the team at the time. I did not have the speed to scramble like I needed to for victory.

For all those curious about how I started the team:

8 Zombies
2 Flesh Golems
1 Wight
5 Rerolls
7-9 FF? I don't remember the exact number.

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 8:59 am

God I hope that is a league team, I need some cheap SPPs for my Lizards.

I don't see it being a powerhouse team, or a cheap win... all I see is a team that replaces an already balanced team. My question is why? We lose the original undead for 1 or 2 broken teams, and a team most people are still undecided about.

Keep the real undead!

Of course I'm allways up for a game to see how they work... as long as I don't lose my old undead team!

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:18 am

i've played against necros a few times and just hate it. the werewolves rack up spp's and become terrors. easily getting blodge, then mighty blow or piling on. with their speed you can't corner them. the flesh golems are just pains. + all the wights that are on the field. This team just sucks playing against. I'd like to see the werewolves toned down to 8 3 3 8 with only frenzy. give them access to str/agil/gen and cost around 80-70k this leaves the option of playing a werewolf team.

Ken

Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:40 am

the were's are quite good indeed. Have them play gobs or 'flings. Big fun (FETCH!!!)

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 10:52 am

If u get a chance get a look at the experimental revised roster at bloodbowl.net, its very much more balanced.

Arkeo · Post by **Arkeo** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:17 am

I agree with you Sixpack595! Don´t mess with a perfect blood bowl team

I have nothing against these new teams, it´s always fun with new teams, but they need to be balanced! And it´s not necessary to take away the original undead roster. Every team have a place in Blood Bowl.

Is there anyone who can tell how balanced Khemri and Vampire teams are compared to other teams?

Johan

Arkeo · Post by **Arkeo** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:18 am

But that werewolf would be very good for some rat hunt, especially gutter runners.

Oh what I hate gutter runners

Johan

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:36 pm

um seeing as the current undead roster has 8 ag3 players the same as the necro one I can't see its a problem with the ag

sure the wolves are fast but you given up 2 ghouls to get then and they only move one square faster and start without dodge

sure they have rsc but they don't have block and are still only st3, if you give them dodge first tackle will soon negate that, if you can't corner them, I suggest you position your players better

there are only 2 on the team and seeing as they don't have regenerate or have the use of an apoth they are rather fragile, get them down and foul them

I think you are just making a mountain out of a mole hill, sure they can get piling on first with a doubles for +3+2 but a big guy or a mummy can get it with a normal roll for +5+1

iirc they cost the same as a wardancer and while they are good I still think wardancers are better

Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:33 pm

my opponent may take piling on for one of those. I have dirty player!

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:03 pm

I'll take your comments one at a time:

"God I hope that is a league team, I need some cheap SPPs for my Lizards."

Actually, they are. You won't be getting many cheap SPPs from them now, though. The team has picked up an additional Wight, a Werewolf, and is on the cusp of having a ton of Zombies with their first skill.
-------------------

"seeing as the current undead roster has 8 ag3 players the same as the necro one I can't see its a problem with the ag"

"sure the wolves are fast but you given up 2 ghouls to get then and they only move one square faster and start without dodge"

You're right, I forgot that they had 8 AG players before. But the AG 3 combined with MA 8 really does make a huge difference. The added mobility to an otherwise fairly slow team is big when it comes to scrambling for the ball.

As for starting without Dodge, Werewolves begin with two traits (including one that is never normally available to Undead) and an agility skill, along with that MA 8, AV 7. Ghouls start with an agility skill and AV 7. The loss of Ghouls is definitely not a true loss!

"sure they have rsc but they don't have block and are still only st3, if you give them dodge first tackle will soon negate that, if you can't corner them, I suggest you position your players better"

No Block, S3, no matter. With Frenzy and the team's ability to isolate players one on one with Zombies, you're going to be able to blitz someone and hit them twice thanks to Frenzy. On top of that, they get their SPPs very, very quickly giving them the all-important Blodge in a hurry.

"there are only 2 on the team and seeing as they don't have regenerate or have the use of an apoth they are rather fragile, get them down and foul them"

Everyone says the same thing about Ghouls. Werewolves have AV 8, which is a dramatic increase in durability. Werewolves are also not players that play in isolation; their S3 and lack of Block means you're using your other players to lend assists to take advantage of RSF. That also means you're not leaving your Werewolves too exposed.

"I think you are just making a mountain out of a mole hill, sure they can get piling on first with a doubles for +3+2 but a big guy or a mummy can get it with a normal roll for +5+1"

A Mummy also has MA 3, AG 1. The Mummy has to cause three casualties before it tears folks up. The Mummy also can't score touchdowns to save its unlife. Mummies are brutal, for sure, but they are also designed for a specific use. Werewolves really can do everything.

On top of that, (and I'm making a big assumption here) don't Mummies usually take 3-4 games to get that first skill? I really don't know because I have not used them. Werewolves can easily get their first skill after game one and can even get their second by game two.

"iirc they cost the same as a wardancer and while they are good I still think wardancers are better"

The differences are very profound, though. Wardancers have three skills and AG 4. Werewolves have two traits on them to start, including a mutation, and an extra point of armor. Would you give up Block on your Wardancer for RSF? Of course you would. What about Dodge and/or Leap? A no brainer. Werewolves may need slightly more building to be as complete of a player than the Wardancer but, in the long run, the Werewolf has much, much more potential.

-------------------------

As I said before, however, these are just my opinions after five games. I'll be sure to revisit this as I play more matches:

http://www.oldboysleague.com/bbadmin/team3.php?team=20

Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 4:31 pm

I have played one (old team) and must agree. That one was still AV7 but the new one(S!!!) should even be a little better at their jobs.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Jun 07, 2003 5:45 pm

Right well you go on about them having high movement, then turn around and save you cant get at them cause they are kept covered to get assists.

They have frenzy which i personally think sucks, always follow up have to make a second block, these things you can use to lure them out to where you want them.

Then when they pile on you can get in there and foul them and as for comparing them to ghouls of course they are better but they cost almost twice as much.

Players that good/price are always going to be able to do a lot. But if you can tie them up with linemen, they are far more likely to block them rather then run far with their high movement and blitz someon you don't want them to.

I honestly don't really see much of a problem with them, they won't want to get in a blocking/foul war cause all injuries are pemanent on them and this also makes their high movement worthless if they are mulling about hiding.

As with any player there are ways to counter them and teams with 2 nerves of steel catchers or one turners are going to be far more of a problem than a werewolf.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:30 am

Grumbledook wrote:Right well you go on about them having high movement, then turn around and save you cant get at them cause they are kept covered to get assists.

I honestly don't really see much of a problem with them, they won't want to get in a blocking/foul war cause all injuries are pemanent on them and this also makes their high movement worthless if they are mulling about hiding.

Speed suddenly equates to a player being left isolated? That doesn't make much sense. A speedy player can hit the endzone quicly if they need to from a protected pocked without exposing themselves to real danger.

A speedy player can also do his blitz and then run away, if the situation is too grim to use Piling On right then.

Grumbledook wrote:They have frenzy which i personally think sucks, always follow up have to make a second block, these things you can use to lure them out to where you want them.

I guess you and I will simply have to have differing opinions on this trait. I'm loving it every time I use it. I don't find it difficult at all to set up my own players to lend assists to put the blocks in my favor and still leave my wolf protected.

Grumbledook wrote: Then when they pile on you can get in there and foul them and as for comparing them to ghouls of course they are better but they cost almost twice as much.

Players that good/price are always going to be able to do a lot. But if you can tie them up with linemen, they are far more likely to block them rather then run far with their high movement and blitz someon you don't want them to.

The same argument is made for Piling On Mummies, Norse Blitzers, and anyone else who uses Piling On. If that was such a negative, to be left on the ground, folks would stop taking Piling On.

As for the cost, as most coaches realize, it's always worth paying the price for the extra skills and stats.

And putting a lineman on the Wolf? Please do! Now I don't have to use my blitz and I'm likely to chew up that lineman. I don't go out of my way to kill specific players; just cleaning the pitch one body at a time suffices for me.

Grumbledook wrote: As with any player there are ways to counter them and teams with 2 nerves of steel catchers or one turners are going to be far more of a problem than a werewolf.

Guess what? The Werewolf can be one of those NoS catchers. And bringing OTS into this argument is kinda silly; an OTS can score, sure, but he isn't eating other teams for breakfast. The Werewolf can do both.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:22 am

Yeah, werewolves are fairly brutal, then again so are Mummies, which the Necros dont' have. I don't see a whole lot of bother with the team. Good points and bad points, like most teams.

As for fouling them when they pile on (not that I'd take piling on for wolves, personally) there's a big difference between fouling an AV9 Mummy or Blackorc and fouling an AV7 Wolf. For starters, you only need the one player to get a better than average chance of the foul working, additionally if that werewolf goes they won't be apothed or regenerated....

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:43 am

The wolf is now AV8. And, naturally, I'm not going to Pile On if I'm in a too-vulnerable spot. Frenzy makes this especially easy; I can push my victim to a spot where I can Pile On with less risk.