general conclusion= Big guys+Piling On=Unbalanced

[narkotic]

Making it a fixed +3av will make it a very bad skill compared with claw..

but it is too powerful when certain teams, stack up on it, and combine with MB/RSC

first, claw is a muatation + you need a double
second, since when people do not stack up PO with MB or RSC in its current state?

[Zombie]

+ST and declared before armour is perfectly balanced. And it's still plenty good when you've got jump up to go along with it (norse blitzers, witch elves).

Besides, you all know that's how it's going to happen in November, so no point still discussing it.

There are many other things left undecided for November that we can still influence. Better discuss those.

Plus, if making it a static +3 is so much better, why did that option, combined with a static +2 option and a 1/2 ST option, collect only 5% of the votes, while making it declare prior to the roll collected 53%? Face it, you've lost.

http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=5176

[MistWraith]

Nothing is really decided until november. We can still change their minds and/or influence how things turn out.

[narkotic]

Plus, if making it a static +3 is so much better, why did that option, combined with a static +2 option and a 1/2 ST option, collect only 5% of the votes, while making it declare prior to the roll collected 53%? Face it, you've lost.

Since when a poll at TBB has real impact on the BBRC decisions?

I'm not sure that it will be ruled to be declared before the roll, as there can be a reluctance to introduce an exception to the "skills after the dice roll" rule.

[Zombie]

Since this. The BBRC have already told Galak that this is how it's gonna go in November (and already asked him to test it out), and that this is due in good part to the discussion and the poll that we had over here.

[narkotic]

Ok, that gives it much more weight, but still I wouldn't take if for automatically granted (as they are still testing it). It only voids my argument that they may not accept to introduce a rule exception. Still, who knows what's going on in JJ's head?

Example: they printed the werewolf in the annual like they wanted, ignoring the playtesting of Galaks werewolf.

[Grumbledook]

galaks not the only werewolf thats being tested

[Thadrin]

I've given up hope that the opinions we voice hear will ever have any sort of effect on the BBRC's thinking.

It wouldn't matter if 100% of people on here hated a rule, if four of the BBRC think its a good idea - be they the only four in the world, its in.

[Munkey]

I used to think that making it after the roll would solve the problem but now i'm not so sure.

On a ST3/4 player this would probably work, based on no real problems in this regard under 3ed rules (although maybe we were distracted by rampant dirty players).

On a ST5 player there is such a minimal chance of failing that it's almost no decision at all, the few times you remain standing will be because you need to move next turn not because you're worried about failing.

In addition now that fouling has been toned down (note this is a good thing), there is less worry that the player will be fouled off the pitch, and let's face it ST5 players are pretty tough anyway.

So the upshot of all this rambling is that a static +3 may be a better solution and has the advantage of not creating an exeption to the rules, although to my mind the game balance is of paramount importance here.

[Dave]

3+ modifier for everybody is no fun. Imagine a halfling getting is (if it staysa normal skill) Quite a difference in mass between an Ogre of a Fling

[Dragoonkin]

No...adds strength to the roll, to a maximum of +3 Dave.

[Dragoonkin]

At least, that was my idea. I like the "ST to a max of +3" because it doesn't make it any better for Stunties and Gutter Runners and such than it is now...but it tones it down for the high-end players (who cause most of the PO abuse).

[Tim]

How about having to make an armour roll (without the ST+ bonus of course) for the guy with piling on too?

Or exclude the use of mighty blow and rsf when piling on is used (he's piling, not using his arms to hit).

Both ways would tone the skill down a bit and could be combined with before or after the roll use.

[Sushé Wakka]

I second Dragoonkin's option.

[Dave]

No...adds strength to the roll, to a maximum of +3 Dave.

OK then, a flimsy elf has less mass than an Ogre.