Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

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TalonBay
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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by TalonBay »

klauser wrote:How did you level up all those Linerats? :o Do you take the risk to hand-off to them mid-pitch? My Kicker rat died last game, now I'm left with five unskilled Linerats, snif. I guess I should be less risk-averse and feed them more TDs.
They keep stealing all the MVP awards! Not complaining though as it's improved the team no end, a bit of fend sprinkled in there and it'll be even better :) I will give them completions/TDs where possible but at the moment they're out-cas'ing my blitzers (stupid claw blitzer has done nothing since getting the claw).

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by klauser »

Okay, now my own Gutter Runner rolled a doubles for his second skill. First was Block. I know I advocated taking Guard, but I already have a Guard GR (in addition to Guard on a SV and on the Rat Ogre). Makes me wonder if 4 Guard would be "too much" in terms of opportunity cost.

Here's my roster:
SV - MB, Guard
SV - Claw
Rat Ogre - Guard
GR - Block, +ST
GR - +ST, Wrestle
GR - Guard, Block, -MV
GR - Block, [doubles roll]
TH - Accurate
Linerat - Kick
Linerat - Niggle
3 x LR unskilled

I have two blitzing GR with +ST each, so I don't want Horns (nor Dauntless). On a normal roll I would have gone with Side Step, which he will definitely get at a later point. Now I'm thinking maybe Big Hand for ball extraction duties, though it probably won't come into play very often. Two Heads would go in the same vein. Disturbing Presence could be a nice toy versus agile/Elf teams.

So what you would do here:

1. go with Guard anyway

2. Big Hand or Two Heads for ball extraction

3. Disturbing Presence for cuteness

4. ignore the doubles and go with Side Step

Thanks for the input!

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by TalonBay »

If he's likely to be a safety type player, picking up opposition receivers then I can see disturbing presence combo'ing well with sidestep, diving-tackle and the like.

Perhaps Very Long Legs? and later leap for an alternative type of player?

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by DoubleSkulls »

Two Heads. Just try it and see if you regret it...

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by klauser »

TalonBay wrote:If he's likely to be a safety type player, picking up opposition receivers then I can see disturbing presence combo'ing well with sidestep, diving-tackle and the like.
True, the nice part is that Disturbing Presence is great for marking a receiver even before I get Side Step, as it will still work when they blitz free the receiver (even on a knock-down). However, I wonder if Side Step isn't simply a better skill than DP. Other uses for DP would be to block a thrower's intended path. Not sure how often that would come up.
TalonBay wrote:Perhaps Very Long Legs? and later leap for an alternative type of player?
I'm not a fan of VLL in general, would rather wait until I roll +AG on a Gutter Runner and follow that up with Leap
DoubleSkulls wrote:Two Heads. Just try it and see if you regret it...
Two Heads is nice because it is universally useful - every GR will be doing a bunch of Dodges every game. I just felt that the hardest part in recovering a ball is often the pick-up attempt in multiple tackle zones. Usually I would try to push somebody on the ball and hope for a favourable bounce. Having a Big Hand GR in such a case would mean a much safer means of retrieving the ball.

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by DoubleSkulls »

Two heads is about getting places. It doesn't really care why - it might be to assist blitzing the ball carrier or just run through the opposing defence to score. Big Hand only helps when the ball is loose in TZ. So although it probably has a lower visible effect you use it a lot more than you think.

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by TalonBay »

My Dodge, Wrestle, Guard runner just rolled another double! Guard has proven very useful because with MA9 you can get it where you need it generally, I'm now wondering what will combo with these.

Not a fan of VLL here as there's not a lot of passing going on and it'll only help with leaping when I get the next skill. Leap itself is a strong possibilty though.

I'm not struggling to pick up balls so I don't think big hand is going to add enough.

Two heads is a contender, though I find leap generally a better "access" skill.

I need strip ball and tackle on the team, though there's plenty of sure hands in my league so tackle probably wins here.

So what do people think for this guy as he is? Looks like one of these to me:
. Leap
. Tackle
. Two Heads

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by mattgslater »

Ignore the double for Side Step or Leap. Two Heads lets you dodge about in zones, which is lots of fun, but doesn't combo as well with Guard as you'd think because dodging into multiple zones is still dangerous. He's your Guard guy, so you don't need to give him Tackle: instead, consider Side Step, then either Leap or Diving Tackle at 76.

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by klauser »

Definitely Side Step.

I don't like Leap on the Guard assist, because it usually means you have to take the 3+ roll BEFORE you blitz. So when you fail the Leap, you also forfeit your blitz (on top of risking death or permanent injury to one of your best pieces). Actually, it's bad enough if you have to Reroll the Leap and have to blitz naked.

Side Step on the other hand will be key in keeping that rat alive. The combination of Guard and SS is a huge deterrent to hit your piece, esp. when things are getting bogged down around the opposing ball carrier. And when they have to hit him and miss (Push result), it will often put the nail in the coffin. Of course, he'd be even better with Block instead of Wrestle, but that does not devalue Side Step as the best pick.

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by Penwaaagh »

Side step could keep him safer for longer and maybe get him closer for TD's...

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by Daht »

Or if you are skilling him up and he's a rare/important peice that takes 2-3d hits often, foul appearance

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by TalonBay »

Ok, I just skilled up two of the GRunners and they both rolled doubles!

#6: 8,2,4,7 - Dodge, Block, SideStep + <3,3>
#7: 10,3,4,7 - Dodge, Block + <5,5>

Number seven has been stunning for skill rolls, the choices here are crazy: +1 MA is an obvious one but I can usually get a push if needed, +1 AV would be great for keeping him alive (he already has a bounty on him), leap will add plenty, likewise SS, horns is a great addition (for the ST4 blitz). I'm leaning towards horns but I'm curious if those that play leagues long term would emphasis survival with the AV boost?

Number six is interesting because I was close to cutting him when he got his move bust but MA8 with blodge side-step has still proven mighty useful. I've already got a guard GR and my rat ogre has guard, it's a good combo with SS but do I need more of it? Is it worth bringing in something like disturbing presence? Prehensile tail would lead him down the Diving-Tackle path which goes well with the existing skills but it's a long wait for that next skill and it's quite specific. I don't think this guy is going to end up with leap any time soon.

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by Smeborg »

I would be inclined to take Guard on #6 and +1MA on #7 (if allowed - in 6th Edition you can only have a max of 10 for any stat). Nice team.

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by Ullis »

Smeborg wrote:I would be inclined to take Guard on #6 and +1MA on #7 (if allowed - in 6th Edition you can only have a max of 10 for any stat). Nice team.
Smeborg, did you see the ST3? For that reason I'd take Horns on #7. And Guard on the other due to synergy with blodge and side step.

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Re: Does a Gutter Runner need a double for skills?

Post by dines »

Ullis wrote:
Smeborg wrote:I would be inclined to take Guard on #6 and +1MA on #7 (if allowed - in 6th Edition you can only have a max of 10 for any stat). Nice team.
Smeborg, did you see the ST3? For that reason I'd take Horns on #7. And Guard on the other due to synergy with blodge and side step.
Agree

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